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Stupid new laws...

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:51 pm
by Kerry Tobin
So, Madison just passed a new law yesterday...

1. You must have a smoke detector in every bedroom and on every floor.

2. The smoke detector must be hard wired into the home's electrical or have a 10 year tamper proof battery.

3. If it is a multi-family dwelling these items must be in place by mid-April. If it is a single family home, you get an extra year...

Now, I can understand #1. But seriously, I can't use a simple smoke detector that takes a 9 volt battery??? Even dumber, if someone buys a smoke detector that has a 10 year battery, exactly how often do you think they're going to bother to "test" it? I'll bet, maybe in 15 years, they start something on fire in the kitchen and wonder why it didn't go off...

Yep, brilliant city of Madison, make people spend money on all new smoke detectors, replacing perfectly functional ones, and in many cases rewiring their houses, in a depression. Heck, we just bought a new smoke detector, any idea how much one of those suckers costs if you get one that can do CO2 also? I'd be rather annoyed if you now told me I had to throw it away...

Re: Stupid new laws...

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:38 pm
by kmartell
But won't this new law create new jobs?

For example, The Smoke Detector Policeman!! Major qualification is that the new hire must enjoy sticking his nose in other people's business. :lol:

Re: Stupid new laws...

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:53 pm
by IAMWHATIAM
The laws just keep coming. This is all done in the interest of our safety of course. Where I live we are required to have one in every hall way and every room of the house and they are all wired together with batery backups. Now everytime I burn the toast, the entire house screams out a symphony. Next thing you know they'll pass a law requiring all persons to wear a smoke detector to bed. When does it end. :?

Re: Stupid new laws...

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:18 am
by aphephilia
It's that ole slippery slope ya know. First one thing, then another and another and another. All you pro ban people have only yourselves to thank. You can't want government in the bedroom of just SOME of the people while others get left alone. Once government gets into one man's bedroom, they begin entering all of them. And it's all "for your own good" dontchya know

and yes, I know that "dontchya" isn't a REAL word :mrgreen:

The state of New York has now implemented a new tax increase ( the obesity tax) on full calorie soda and other full calorie sugary drinks. I imagine Doyle will follow suit.

Re: Stupid new laws...

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:11 pm
by Old Scout
If there is something that can be taxed, dufus doyle will find a way to do it. :x

Re: Stupid new laws...

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:12 pm
by Kerry Tobin
I think I've got a business idea... I'm going to patent an implanted smoke detector, gps and cellular device. The smoke detector will be able to determine if it is a "fire" or a cigarette, check your gps coordinates and notify the police if you are smoking in a public building. It will also sound an alarm if you're in a building on fire and notify the fire department.

THEN I'm going to get laws passed the require EVERYONE to buy and implant my device and pay ME the monthly cellular fee. I'm going to be RICH!!!!!

Re: Stupid new laws...

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:23 pm
by kmartell
You and the boys been hitting the suds a little early today, are ya now, aye ???

Sounds good to me. Another round for my pals here!!!

We're all gonna be rich!!! 8)

Re: Stupid new laws...

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:14 pm
by Kerry Tobin
And kmartell's version gets a shock collar too. Implying I'm going to share my fortune like that, the nerve! :mrgreen:

Re: Stupid new laws...

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:52 pm
by kmartell
Well, I tried. I was hoping you wouldn't spot that little 'we' thing that I added.

Ouch, owww, what the heck is that stinging in my neck...and what's that little hard lump under the skin?!

Re: Stupid new laws...

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:22 am
by neup99
Normally, it really doesn't take government too long to take a good idea and turn it into a bad joke.

In this case I'm actually pretty torn wether or not I agree with this. I absolutly do not like the idea of more govenment/more laws. However, there are plenty of issues with smoke dectectors not being used, or being used improperly. Rental units (of any type) I belive should be required to have the smoke detector systems. For private residences, adding smoke detector requirements to builing codes would seem to be more appropriate than imposing fines. For existing homes, I think the time has passed to make any mandates. The problem with this though, like a lot of things, is that the negligence puts the children in the homes at risk.

Re: Stupid new laws...

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:37 pm
by Kerry Tobin
It's not the having smoke detecters that bothers me. I just want to know what's wrong with the battery operated ones. My sister and brother-in-law just bought a house. We turned the circuits off as we replaced a couple lights, etc. Every detector in the house started chirping because they were all wired in but had battery backups. I don't think the batteries in the things had ever been changed.

If you don't "need" to check a battery, why would you?

Re: Stupid new laws...

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:02 am
by neup99
Did the detectors go off because they lost power or because the back up batteries were dead?

The advantage with wired smoke detectors is that when one goes off, they all go off. Another concern are the stories of kids taking the batteries out of traditional smoke detectors to use them for games or toys. They may be urban legends, but there is a concern.

I'm not that personally familiar with the long life battery smoke detectors, but I have already heard of them going bad in 6 months already. If that is the case, I wouldn't upgrade either.

Re: Stupid new laws...

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:04 am
by Kerry Tobin
They all independently went into their "chirp" state because the backup batteries were dead. They didn't chirp until the power was turned off though...

The "el cheapo" we just bought for our cabin has an optional tamper proof setup. I can tell you I don't even remember seeing one that had a "10 year tamper proof battery".

Re: Stupid new laws...

Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:42 pm
by abnerman
Kerry Tobin wrote:So, Madison just passed a new law yesterday...

1. You must have a smoke detector in every bedroom and on every floor.

2. The smoke detector must be hard wired into the home's electrical or have a 10 year tamper proof battery.

3. If it is a multi-family dwelling these items must be in place by mid-April. If it is a single family home, you get an extra year...

Now, I can understand #1. But seriously, I can't use a simple smoke detector that takes a 9 volt battery??? Even dumber, if someone buys a smoke detector that has a 10 year battery, exactly how often do you think they're going to bother to "test" it? I'll bet, maybe in 15 years, they start something on fire in the kitchen and wonder why it didn't go off...

Yep, brilliant city of Madison, make people spend money on all new smoke detectors, replacing perfectly functional ones, and in many cases rewiring their houses, in a depression. Heck, we just bought a new smoke detector, any idea how much one of those suckers costs if you get one that can do CO2 also? I'd be rather annoyed if you now told me I had to throw it away...



I don't want to change the subject, because in my opinion this is foolish.... but I feel that it's also all relative.



Sarcastic edit of something Kerry wrote:
(My edit in green:)

"I had an extremely intelligent professor that taught one of my high level business classes. He made a comment in class one day that's really stuck with me. It basically was that all laws forced on [businesses] individuals by the government are due to a failure of [businesses] individuals to regulate themselves. I think this is a pretty good example. If the [businesses] individuals aren't smart enough to do it on their own, someone's going to force them to do the right thing... "




In all fairness, if I personally choose to spend any amount of time in the house of someone who lives in Madison, shouldn't I feel that I have the right to be protected from things about their property that I feel may be detrimental to my health?

Re: Stupid new laws...

Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:11 am
by Kerry Tobin
Abnerman,

As stated, I have no problem with requiring smoke detectors, even requiring more of them. I believe some areas require CO2 detectors too, also a good idea.

I want to know why I can't use a "standard" smoke detector, why do I have to wire one in? I think the second part is the stupid one...

Re: Stupid new laws...

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:28 am
by neup99
Kerry Tobin wrote:They all independently went into their "chirp" state because the backup batteries were dead. They didn't chirp until the power was turned off though...


:shock: Sounds like a poor design. Hopefully they have been improved upon.

Re: Stupid new laws...

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:36 am
by neup99
abnerman wrote:
Sarcastic edit of something Kerry wrote:
(My edit in green:)

"I had an extremely intelligent professor that taught one of my high level business classes. He made a comment in class one day that's really stuck with me. It basically was that all laws forced on [businesses] individuals by the government are due to a failure of [businesses] individuals to regulate themselves. I think this is a pretty good example. If the [businesses] individuals aren't smart enough to do it on their own, someone's going to force them to do the right thing... "




In all fairness, if I personally choose to spend any amount of time in the house of someone who lives in Madison, shouldn't I feel that I have the right to be protected from things about their property that I feel may be detrimental to my health?


But that's where I think the lines should not be blurred. Laws regarding businesses and individuals should be mutually exclusive. The comparison regarding the use of common sense and being responsible for your past behavior I can agree with though.

I'm not really sure that I can say this without being offensive, but why should the government be responsible to protect you from the friends you choose?

Re: Stupid new laws...

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:42 pm
by IAMWHATIAM
neup99 wrote:
abnerman wrote:
Sarcastic edit of something Kerry wrote:
(My edit in green:)

"I had an extremely intelligent professor that taught one of my high level business classes. He made a comment in class one day that's really stuck with me. It basically was that all laws forced on [businesses] individuals by the government are due to a failure of [businesses] individuals to regulate themselves. I think this is a pretty good example. If the [businesses] individuals aren't smart enough to do it on their own, someone's going to force them to do the right thing... "




In all fairness, if I personally choose to spend any amount of time in the house of someone who lives in Madison, shouldn't I feel that I have the right to be protected from things about their property that I feel may be detrimental to my health?


But that's where I think the lines should not be blurred. Laws regarding businesses and individuals should be mutually exclusive. The comparison regarding the use of common sense and being responsible for your past behavior I can agree with though.

I'm not really sure that I can say this without being offensive, but why should the government be responsible to protect you from the friends you choose?



neup99,
As far as I am concerned you are right on target. If we surrender to government the sole responsibility to protect us from unsafe situations, they will be rounding us up and putting us in padded cells for our protection. We all make choices that affect our own safety, whether it be getting into a friends older car that has no air bags or risking walking down the side walk in our neighborhood. It is our right and ultimately our responsibility as to the outcome. I think smoke detectors are a great idea, and they should be regulated in public places and businesses that have public access, but if we allow the government to force feed us these regulations unchecked, then our freedoms are slowly erroded away. Though I respect the perspective of the previous poster you quoted, the last thing I want is the responsibility of my safety turned over to the government to regulate it. I am sure this agrument could be spun from the angle that the government can protect us better, and in some cases they probably have, but when given the choice, I choose personal freedom and personal responsibility everytime.

Re: Stupid new laws...

Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:13 am
by Kerry Tobin
Couple quick updates...

First, I think a lot of places already require you have some level of smoke detectors. That's not new. These requirements are a little high, but I don't consider them completely out of line.

Second, an updated story talked with some of the landlords. One business has an employee now doing nothing but installing new smoke detectors. They believe they will have to order 4,000 new smoke detectors to make their buildings compliant with the new law. They also talked with a hardware store who has no idea where they're going to store this many detectors. They have room for about 100 at a time and can get a new delivery twice a week.

These things are going to be hotter than Tickle Me Elmo, this could be fun to watch!

Re: Stupid new laws...

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:12 pm
by Old Scout
In all fairness, if I personally choose to spend any amount of time in the house of someone who lives in Madison, shouldn't I feel that I have the right to be protected from things about their property that I feel may be detrimental to my health?


If you feel there are things about someone's house that are detrimental to your health what are you doing there ? ?

If you stopped at my house and asked how many smoke detectors I had before you would come in, I would probably just close the door and forget I knew you. :roll:

Re: Stupid new laws...

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:00 pm
by abnerman
Old Scout wrote:
In all fairness, if I personally choose to spend any amount of time in the house of someone who lives in Madison, shouldn't I feel that I have the right to be protected from things about their property that I feel may be detrimental to my health?


If you feel there are things about someone's house that are detrimental to your health what are you doing there ? ?

If you stopped at my house and asked how many smoke detectors I had before you would come in, I would probably just close the door and forget I knew you. :roll:




I can't tell, did my shameless sarcasm not translate as well as I hoped it would, or are you playing along? :)

Re: Stupid new laws...

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:21 pm
by Old Scout
In all fairness, if I personally choose to spend any amount of time in the house of someone who lives in Madison, shouldn't I feel that I have the right to be protected from things about their property that I feel may be detrimental to my health?

If you stopped at my house and asked how many smoke detectors I had before you would come in, I would probably just close the door and forget I knew you. :roll:


I can't tell, did my shameless sarcasm not translate as well as I hoped it would, or are you playing along? :)



I can't seem to remember, would you remind me again who you are ? :lol:

Re: Stupid new laws...

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:51 am
by Nimble
Kerry Tobin wrote:Abnerman,

As stated, I have no problem with requiring smoke detectors, even requiring more of them. I believe some areas require CO2 detectors too, also a good idea.

I want to know why I can't use a "standard" smoke detector, why do I have to wire one in? I think the second part is the stupid one...


May have something with the tendency of smoke detectors to become disabled by battery removal/pilfering. Also the cost of the amount of electiricity is astronomically cheaper from the grid than batteries and eliminates the battery disposal problem.


I think it should be required in all new construction. As to the existing structures, they could have dealt with those with incentives and education to a certain extent.

Re: Stupid new laws...

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:28 pm
by abnerman
Old Scout wrote:
If you feel there are things about someone's house that are detrimental to your health what are you doing there ? ?






What do you mean what am I doing there? I'm simply there demanding that the government mandates and the home owner accepts their inheirent responsibility to do whatever makes me happy, or I won't come over any more.

[/endsarcasm] :wink:

Re: Stupid new laws...

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:27 pm
by Jeff Boettcher
Have a beer & chill. Oops, would that be an example of being placed in a dangerous situation?? Sarcasm extended or denied. Your choice!?