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The Tomahawk Leader is a state and national prize-winning weekly newspaper serving the scenic Northwoods area in and around Tomahawk, WI.

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 Post subject: Tea Party
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:40 pm 
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Anyone attend any Tea Parties today?

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 Post subject: Re: Tea Party
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:15 pm 
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Instead of symbolicly dumping the Tea overboard, we need to do it different this time and dump the politicians over the side ! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Tea Party
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:25 pm 
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If I had heard about it before hand I might have gone today, I'm in Madison after all...


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 Post subject: Re: Tea Party
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:25 pm 
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Hmm, in Madison and didn't hear a thing about it, what no TV or other media at your house Kerry? ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Tea Party
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:38 pm 
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I realized I was watching too much TV and not getting anything done so I "grounded" myself on a limited basis. I still watch the key shows that I actually follow, and half the time I end up watching them on the web rather than when they are actually on TV. I'll also watch an occasional movie.

In the mean time, my apartment is getting cleaner, I've started reading books again, etc. News is basically what ever attracts my attention in the RSS feeds I follow. "Tea Party" just didn't do it until after it was over...


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 Post subject: Re: Tea Party
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:12 am 
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It's a shame that the partisanship took the lead in the media over the basic idea of the tea parties. From what I understand, this idea came primarily from the libertarian sector, but the GOP took most of the credit. The focus of the media seems to be placed on the two sides of politics being republican and democrats. My interpertation of the tea parties is that the two sides of politics are taxers and taxees.

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 Post subject: Re: Tea Party
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:24 am 
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Well, I doubt very seriously that you can possibly have an anti tax rally that is not going to be politically divided.

I do not want to get into any big political debates here but the overall general perception is that the "taxers", as you call them, are Democrats and the "taxees" are Republicans.

Of course there is some spill over on both sides and then the "others"; independents, Libertarians, etc, etc. But generally speaking it is still perceived as a two party thing.

I will admit that I just do not agree with either the Republicans, who started the bail outs or the Democrats that are expanding them. I just flat do not see how we can spend our way out of financial problems that were primarily caused by over spending to begin with.

I guess that may make me an independent... or just ticked off at politic in general.


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 Post subject: Re: Tea Party
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:53 am 
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You're close. What I meant by taxers and taxees are politician vs. taxpayer. While there may be a loop formula in that politicians pay taxes, my interperetation is that the "teabaggers" do not feel that the government is representing thier values and ethics.

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 Post subject: Re: Tea Party
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:50 am 
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>my interperetation is that the "teabaggers" do not feel that the government is representing thier values and ethics.<

What's the figure, half the people in this country don't even bother to register and half of them that do don't bother to vote? If that is the case my guess is it is a lot more then just those that supported the Tea Party that feel that way.

Unless you figure that many people are not participating because they are so happy about the way government is running things.... fat chance of that! lol

But to follow your train of thought of taxers being politicians I'm not sure it is as simple as that.

We all know that it is much easier to get reelected then it is to get elected in the first place. So either the vast majority of the voters are also taxers or stupid, one or the other.


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 Post subject: Re: Tea Party
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:16 pm 
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I agree with you for the most part, are you sure you're in California? :mrgreen:

Floyd Alvin wrote:
What's the figure, half the people in this country don't even bother to register and half of them that do don't bother to vote? If that is the case my guess is it is a lot more then just those that supported the Tea Party that feel that way.


Absolutely. I think that a majority feels that way, it's just that the demonstrators vocalized their feelings in an organized fashion.

Floyd Alvin wrote:
Unless you figure that many people are not participating because they are so happy about the way government is running things.... fat chance of that! lol


A lot of people did not participate because of apathy, work, kids, introversion, etc. Also, I think some people are so invested in the "Obama is the answer" idea that they will follow his plans, regardless of wether or not they agree with them, longer than they normally would or should in order to save face. This is not to say republicans or any other political party supporters don't do the same thing. It's an issue with Democrats because we have a Democratic president.

Floyd Alvin wrote:
But to follow your train of thought of taxers being politicians I'm not sure it is as simple as that.

We all know that it is much easier to get reelected then it is to get elected in the first place. So either the vast majority of the voters are also taxers or stupid, one or the other.


Maybe I'm becoming a little too jaded and synical, but I think it is as simple as that. I believe a lot of reelection occurs because most people are more afraid of the monster they don't know than the monster they know. A vast majority of voters are not neccessarily stupid, but I would venture a guess that less than 20% of voters spend more than 2 hours researching the names on the ballots they cast. Especially when they feel safe and stable.

If you ask the average person if they believe they are being over taxed, I would propose that 95% will say yes, assuming you don't ask a politician. It's no surprise that the idea of a tea party has been resurected. However, by putting a spin on the act, claiming that it's a GOP stunt to attack Obama, you change the focus of the people who would defend Obama.

The reason there are two parties in politics is so the argument is Republican vs. Democrat. This focus on the two sides battling takes away from the bigger picture which is that we are increasingly paying more and more to for our government to see less and less results. Most anything that can be taxed is being taxed. Property tax, Income tax, Sales tax, Death tax... You get taxed when you make the money then get taxed when you spend it. How the **** does that make sense?

I think a major downfall occured when being a politician became a career. Formerly, the leaders of the community would step up to form a board to see that the needs of the community were addressed and taken care of. They were the successful and intelligent and not necessarily the deceitful and opportunistic.

Look at your local government to see an example of government still working. The people in local govenment still need to look their neighbors in the eye. They can't jump into a black sedan or on a private jet and avoid the contention, they live in the same neighborhood as they're constituents. They have no where to hide. Which forces them to either stand up for what they believe and take the heat or go with the flow and avoid conflict. In either case, everything is transparent. In the event someone does operate dishonestly for personal gain, it ends up being caught, although occasionally it takes a while, but it gets caught. When there is a regular rotation of staffing and open oversight, there is no opportunity for personal gain at the cost of the taxpayers. No hiding. No fat paycheck. No smoke. No mirrors.

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 Post subject: Re: Tea Party
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:14 am 
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Quote:
I think some people are so invested in the "Obama is the answer" idea that they will follow his plans, regardless of wether or not they agree with them, longer than they normally would or should in order to save face. This is not to say republicans or any other political party supporters don't do the same thing.


Right on the money here!!

The thing I think is so interesting is this was all perdicted back in the late 1700's-early 1800's by Alexander Tyler.

His writings have been so accurate it is really scary. But what is even more scary is the number of people that just don't see it.

The Downfall of Democracy
"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."

-Alexander Tyler 1747-1813
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dgxm7rqm_20dpsck7dp&hl=en


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 Post subject: Re: Tea Party
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:55 am 
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Thanks for putting that link up! I was looking for that quote before, but couldn't remember who said it. You can pretty much assign a timeline to the bullet points listed on that page. :?

If I were to guess, the transition from our current form of government would be to something like the "direct democracy" of Switzerland. Not that I'm pushing for a big change like that, or supporting that form of government, it just appears to be a natural path for our nations society should a major overhaul occur.

In any case, it's pretty scary where this country is headed.

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