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Are we at war with Islam

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:57 am
by Old Scout
after reading this I found it rather interesting that things have not changed much in the past 200 years.

Is the U.S suffering the "Death by a Thousand Cuts"??

Thought this appropriate, as the recent Canadian and NYC incidents reveal -
Most Americans are unaware that over 200 years ago the United States had
declared war on Islam, and Thomas Jefferson led the charge!

At the height of the eighteenth century, Muslim pirates were the terror of
the Mediterranean. They attacked every ship in sight and held the crews for exorbitant ransoms.
Those taken hostage were subjected to barbaric treatment and wrote heart-breaking
letters home, begging their government and family members to pay whatever
their Mohammedan captors demanded.

These extortionists of the high seas represented the Islamic nations of
Tripoli, Tunis, Morocco, and Algiers – collectively referred to as the
Barbary Coast – and presented a dangerous and unprovoked threat to the new
American republic.
Before the Revolutionary War, U.S. merchant ships had been under the
protection of Great Britain. When the U.S. declared its independence and
entered into war, the ships of the United States were protected by France.

However, once the war was won, America had to protect its own fleets.
Thus, the birth of the U.S. Navy.

Beginning in1784, seventeen years before he would become president, Thomas
Jefferson became America’s Minister to France. That same year, the U.S.
Congress sought to appease its Muslim adversaries by following in the
footsteps of European nations who paid bribes to the Barbary States,
rather than engaging them in war.

In July of 1785, Algerian pirates captured American ships, and the Dey of
Algiers demanded an unheard-of ransom of $60,000. It was a plain and
simple case of extortion, and Thomas Jefferson was vehemently opposed to
any further payments. Instead, he proposed to Congress the formation of a
coalition of allied nations who together could force the Islamic states
into peace. An uninterested Congress decided to pay the ransom.

In 1786, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams met with Tripoli’s ambassador to
Great Britain to ask by what right his nation attacked American ships and
enslaved American citizens and why Muslims held so much hostility towards
America, a nation with which they had no previous contacts.

The two future presidents reported that Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman
Adja had answered that Islam "was founded on the laws of their prophet,
that it was written in their Quran, that all nations who should not have
acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and
duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make
slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every
Muslim who should be slain in battle was sure to go to paradise."

Despite of this stunning admission of premeditated violence on non-Muslim
nations, as well as the objections of many notable American leaders,
including George Washington, who warned that caving in was both wrong and
would only further embolden the enemy, for the following fifteen years,
the American government paid the Muslims millions of dollars for the safe
passage of American ships or the return of American hostages. The payments
in ransom and tribute amounted to over twenty percent of the United States
government annual revenues in 1800.

Jefferson was disgusted. Shortly after his being sworn in as the third
President of the United States in 1801, the Pasha of Tripoli sent him a
note demanding the immediate payment of $225,000 plus $25,000 a year for
every year forthcoming. That changed everything.

Jefferson let the Pasha know, in no uncertain terms, what he could do with
his demand. The Pasha responded by cutting down the flagpole at the
American consulate and declared war on the United States. Tunis, Morocco,
and Algiers immediately followed suit.

Jefferson, until now, had been against America raising a naval force for anything beyond coastal defense,
but having watched his nation be cowed by Islamic thuggery for long
enough, decided that is was finally time to meet force with force.

He dispatched a squadron of frigates to the Mediterranean and taught the
Muslim nations of the Barbary Coast a lesson he hoped they would never
forget. Congress authorized Jefferson to empower U.S. ships to seize all
vessels and goods of the Pasha of Tripoli and to “cause to be done all
other acts of precaution or hostility as the state of war would justify”.

When Algiers and Tunis, who were both accustomed to American cowardice and
acquiescence, saw the newly independent United States had both the will
and the might to strike back, they quickly abandoned their allegiance to
Tripoli. The war with Tripoli lasted for four more years, and raged up
again in 1815. The bravery of the U.S. Marine Corps in these wars led to
the line “to the shores of Tripoli” in the Marine Hymn, They would forever
be known as “leathernecks” for the leather collars of their uniforms,
designed to prevent their heads from being cut off by the Muslim scimitars
when boarding enemy ships.

Islam, and what its Barbary followers justified doing in the name of their
prophet and their god, disturbed Jefferson quite deeply. America had a
tradition of religious tolerance, the fact that Jefferson, himself, had
co-authored the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, but fundamentalist

Islam was like no other religion the world had ever seen. A religion based
on supremacy, whose holy book not only condoned but mandated violence
against unbelievers, was unacceptable to him. His greatest fear was that
someday this brand of Islam would return and pose an even greater threat
to the United States.

This should bother every American. That the Islams have brought about
women-only classes and swimming times at taxpayer-funded universities and
public pools; that Christians, Jews, and Hindus have been banned from
serving on juries where Muslim defendants are being judged, piggy banks
and Porky Pig tissue dispensers have been banned from workplaces because
they offend Islamist sensibilities. Ice cream has been discontinued at
certain Burger King locations because the picture on the wrapper looks
similar to the Arabic script for Allah, public schools are pulling pork
from their menus, on and on in the news papers….

It’s death by a thousand cuts, or inch by inch, as some refer to it, and
most Americans have no idea that this battle is being waged every day
across America. By not fighting back, by allowing groups to obfuscate what
is really happening, and by not insisting that the Islamists adapt to our
own culture, the United States is cutting its own throat with a
politically correct knife and helping to further the Islamists’ agenda.

Sadly, it appears that today’s America would rather be politically correct than victorious.

Barbary Coast, Does that come from the word Barbarians ?

If you have any doubts, just google Thomas Jefferson & the Barbary wars.

Re: Are we at war with Islam

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:48 am
by Kerry Tobin
From what I saw the comment that Islam authorizes their actions is considered questionable and it's pretty important to note that Jefferson himself was a slave owner at the time so slavery of others (which is regularly mentioned in the bible) wasn't a moral issue for us either...

Re: Are we at war with Islam

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:24 pm
by Old Scout
I don't think whether he had slaves or not was the point of the article.

After seeing what has been happening in France, I get the impression that like it or not Islam is at war with the rest of the world. Time for the rest of the world to wake up and smell the coffee.

Re: Are we at war with Islam

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:22 pm
by Old Scout
How many more need to be hideously murdered before those fools in Washington wake up and do something before the next attack happens here. I can't believe that idiot that came up with "we need to help them find jobs". That is the last thing they are looking for, they already have jobs, killing those who don't believe they way they do or join them in their hate of the rest of the world.

At least the king of Jordan has the guts to stand up to them, unlike the dufus in the white house. He won't even call them what they are, "Islamic terrorists". Some times makes me wonder if he isn't a closet Muslim himself.

Re: Are we at war with Islam

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:07 pm
by KEN
"me wonder if he isn't a closet Muslim himself."

WOW :roll:

So, what should we do? Send troops on the ground to every country, every part of the world, that has ISIS or Muslim extremists?

Re: Are we at war with Islam

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:16 pm
by Old Scout
A good start would be to give support to the Mideast countries that are putting boots on the ground and fighting them. So far he hasn't even done a good job at that. Sooner or later there is going to be an attack here and then maybe he will wake up.

:roll: No I doubt it !

Re: Are we at war with Islam

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:10 pm
by KEN
Maybe when that punk Scott Walker gets into the White House, we`ll be bringing our children and grandchildren home in body bags from all over the world. Not his children. The top 10% makes money on wars, they don`t die fighting them.

Re: Are we at war with Islam

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:34 pm
by Old Scout
Were the ones in to twin towers and in the pentagon part of the ten percent.

It can and it will happen again and people like you who won't admit there is a problem and are not willing to do something about it will be the blame. Time to pull your head out of the sand !

Re: Are we at war with Islam

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:25 am
by KEN
"you who won't admit there is a problem"

I`ve never said there is no problem. The problem is probably the biggest problem the country has right now. My Head Is Not In The Sand. I will admit I don`t have the answer to the problem. I also doubt Any politician has the answer. No matter what side of the aisle he or she is on. How do you deal with idealistic madmen and women scattered all around the world?
OK , you are now President Old Scout. What should we do Mr. President Old Scout? The world is waiting.

Re: Are we at war with Islam

Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:19 pm
by Old Scout
Judging from your Reply, if I have to explain, you probably wouldn't understand.

Re: Are we at war with Islam

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:59 am
by KEN
" if I have to explain,"
No , if you have an answer to the problem , believe me I would understand.

You said you`d "put boots on the ground" . Where? Iraq,(again) Afganistan,(again) Syria, Yemen, Egypt , Libya , all over Africa, etc etc . The list goes on and on. Let`s not forget Europe, Canada, and even the United States. Those countries are recruiting new , young members for ISIS daily.

You said that President Obama (possibly a closet Muslim) better "do something", "put boots on the ground".

I said, so if it were President Old Scout, What would you do? Where would you do it? How would you do it? Where would the funds come from?

Why anyone would want to President right now is beyond me. I don`t think anyone has the answers. (especially $cott Walker).

The world needs to unite against ISIS. The Entire world, Working together, pulling their resouces.
This would have to include Russia and China!
We are all world citizens, and we should unite to fight a terrible wrong that is happening in out world.
President Obama can`t do it, England , France, and a handful of other countries can`t do it. It will take a world effort.

Re: Are we at war with Islam

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:57 pm
by Old Scout
You said you`d "put boots on the ground"

I see you like to twist my words around. This is what was in my post, please read it more carefully.

A good start would be to give support to the Mideast countries that are putting boots on the ground and fighting them.

The Kurds are begging for weapons and other support so that they can fight ISIS. They are doing their best with what they have and are willing to fight them but our gov. has done little to help. The same with Jordan. There already are boots on the ground and we are not providing them, all we have to do is to supply some help so that they can do the fighting.
Do you actually believe that after obama has screwed up relations with most of the countries in the world that he could actually form any kind of coalition that would support him.

Re: Are we at war with Islam

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:36 pm
by KEN
Ok ,

So we don`t have to put boots on the ground, just support the countries that are putting boots on the ground.


President Obama could be a Muslim.


Because other countries don`t have a good relations with the United States (because of President Obama) they would rather be run over by ISIS then support him.

Re: Are we at war with Islam

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:55 pm
by Old Scout
Like I said before, time to pull your head out of the sand or where ever !

Re: Are we at war with Islam

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:06 am
by KEN
Believe me my head is not in the sand, or where ever.

I just get ticked off when people say something should be done, but don`t really don`t know what.

Whatever party is in control, it`s easy for people who don`t support that party to say , "Why don`t They do something?!, Why don`t They solve the problem"?!

Republicans control both houses now, Why don`t They solve the problems.

Re: Are we at war with Islam

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:53 pm
by Old Scout
And what do you suggest ? :?: So far you haven't put forth any ideas or suggestions. I was hoping to get an intelligent discussion started, but it is hard to do by myself. If you don't like what my ideas, how about telling the world what you think should be done !

I doesn't matter which party is in control, it is the gov. as a whole that needs to step up and admit that there is a problem and propose a solution or path that they will take to solve the problem. When potus won't even use the words islamic terrorist and has not even proposed a plan it just makes me wonder about him. It is his responsibility to propose the plan to congress and get their approval. How many more must die before this threat is faced and dealt with.

Re: Are we at war with Islam

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:00 am
by Kerry Tobin
Old Scout,

Strange, don't remember any complains that Bush wouldn't call them Islamic Extremists either??? I think the Daily Show did a video that cut between both presidents and they basically are wording it exactly the same way.

Also, a number of experts on terrorism have pointed out that history shows the countries that respond in the way we generally have, and how you've suggested actually increase the number of attacks. Every country goes through a lot of bad responses before finally learning to actually work to engage and figure out the root causes and solutions rather than simply thinking they'll attack and destroy the terrorist. One suggestion I've seen that actually would be effective (although never supported by conservatives in this country) is to teach basic info on the Koran and Muslim religion. Ensuring people know the good in the religion would help reduce the ability for people to be radicalized.

It's also important to note, religious based attacks are in the minority, even among terrorist attacks. ... o-podcast/

Re: Are we at war with Islam

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:20 pm
by KEN
"don't remember any complains that Bush wouldn't call them Islamic Extremists either???"

Kerry, if bush , or any other republican were President we would not even be discussing this.
For, if it were a republican President right now, I`m sure Old Scout were believe he`s doing everything possible.[quote][/quote]

Re: Are we at war with Islam

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:15 am
by Old Scout
I think I am wasting my time on this. I tried to get a discussion started on terrorism and you want to turn it into a political discussion. There are two things I don't discuss and they are religion and politics. It is a waste of time as no one is going to change their opinion.

Re: Are we at war with Islam

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:50 am
by Kerry Tobin
Old Scout,

The bulk of my reply specifically talked about terrorism and the idea that we're getting it wrong. I even suggested a start to a long term solution (education both here and abroad). I also linked to a podcast that was entirely about terrorism.

How is that not discussing the issue? Not to mention that you are also constantly bringing up the president and jabs against him (wonder if he isn't a closet Muslim, That idiot, etc.)

Re: Are we at war with Islam

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:26 am
by KEN
"I don't discuss and they are religion and politics."
"you want to turn it into a political discussion."

Here`s just a few of your comments......
"obama has screwed up relations with most of the countries"
"he hasn't even done a good job" (refering to President Obama)
"today’s America would rather be politically correct"
"fools in Washington wake up "
"the dufus in the white house"
"I can't believe that idiot "
"When potus won't even use the words islamic terrorist"
"me wonder if he isn't a closet Muslim himself."

Sounds political . :?

Re: Are we at war with Islam

Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:32 am
by Renee class of '80
Just going to throw my .02 in the ring. Really, in every event of war we were fighting against a country not a group of people. ISIS is not a country, they hold no land, just a bunch of radical nomads with money, power, invading weaker countries, recruiting people who are fed up with their own country and governments who are promised wealth, recognition and the promised land of heaven, and fear of a gruesome death of their families or themselves if they do not.They get attention, they are funded, they promote primal fear. These members are all joining forces for the promise of whatever they are are seeking, which is better than they currently have, and brainwashed against the west since birth... Until each eastern country can get it's act together, make it's own people happier, productive,earning a living, being respected,offering opportunity equally, fighting ISIS on an individual occurrence, killing ISIS will be almost impossible for an outsider to take on in a foreign land.

The USA cannot and will not fix this. The answer lies within the heart and soul of each middle eastern country who WANTS to change it's ways, protects it's people. I believe the biggest threat to America is not ISIS coming here and terrorizing, but hacking into our grid, financial system and computers, water and food supply. They could shut down the USA in just a few key strokes, poison thousands and really make havoc across the whole USA, not just a city, and cause wide spread panic. Until they find out really what is behind ISIS, what their intentions are, we will never be on top of them. Like cutting a worm in 2, it just doubles in size and regroups underground.