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The Tomahawk Leader is a state and national prize-winning weekly newspaper serving the scenic Northwoods area in and around Tomahawk, WI.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:14 am 
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 Post subject: Re: RELIGION
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:37 am 
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In many religions god is known as the one. So "E Pluribus Unum - Out of Many, One" would be the converse. For example if you were one of the non scientific community and believed in a god that created the many facets of reality it would be more accurately "E Unum Pluribus - Out of One, Many".

As for trusting in a god, this of course implies the assumption being accepted that such a being exists. "We" of course is a sweeping term and in America this could safely be modified to "Some". I have never seen a god or encountered any good evidence of the existence of one. I would like to think there is some overriding coherence to the universe, but as I say even were I to believe at the same time I would have to admit to no supporting evidence.

As I get older it matters less. So you die and there is nothing; a much better deal than ending up being forced into singing, chanting, and playing a harp for an eternity.

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 Post subject: Re: RELIGION
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:41 am 
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"E Pluribus Unum" actually is a reference to the 13 colonies united into one nation.


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 Post subject: Re: RELIGION
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:02 am 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Broca:
[QB]I would like to think there is some overriding coherence to the universe, but as I say even were I to believe at the same time I would have to admit to no supporting evidence.
QB]
The evidence is all around you! All a person has to do is make a decision to take the blinders off thier eyes and open the doors of thier heart!
I see and experience evidence of The Living God each and everyday of my life!


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 Post subject: Re: RELIGION
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:09 am 
Jesus was a wonderful person, but it's his followers that scare me. Things like, "just open your eyes and see the light" scare me AWAY from Christianity.

To see the church wrapped so tightly with politics not only frightens me, but causes me to view the church as a power institution rather than what it should be. To go to church and be told I can't dye my hair odd colors "because that is not how God meant us to be" is complete and total B.S.--did the pastor really go through all that education to order people around in the name of God? Does anyone really know what God wants?


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 Post subject: Re: RELIGION
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:41 am 
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QB][/QUOTE]The evidence is all around you! All a person has to do is make a decision to take the blinders off thier eyes and open the doors of thier heart!
I see and experience evidence of The Living God each and everyday of my life![/QB][/QUOTE]

Yipes! I just saw evidence that you may be the reincarnation of my 3rd grade nun from that catholic grade school I suffered through. I may again be due for a spanking. ;)

And where did this "Living God" come from?
Why would it want to send me to "**** " for not believing in it?

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 Post subject: Re: RELIGION
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:43 am 
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****, you mean you can't say "**** " here?

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 Post subject: Re: RELIGION
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:40 pm 
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somewhere in the back of my mind I think I read Albert Einstien turned to religion on his deathbed. Anyone aware of this?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:26 am 
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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:47 am 
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 Post subject: Re: RELIGION
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:41 pm 
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"My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds. That deeply emotional convictin of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God."

Albert Einstein: N.Y. Times obiturary, April 19, 1955

A Carl Sagan kind of god: Star Stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: RELIGION
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 1:37 am 
baby: Speaking of axes to grind, if you have a problem with what I say, never mind the fact that in this very thread I am not addressing you, perhaps you should think about sending a private message to me. It spares us all the spam.


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 Post subject: Re: RELIGION
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 6:14 pm 
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Quote:
Originally posted by baby:
... And He commanded us to "make disciples of all nations." Preaching Christians are only obeying what their Master commanded, and not out of fear or hating the Master, but out of gratitude for their salvation and if we honestly love our neighbors, we would also preach and try to persuade them (and of course without violence or force!) of the reality of Jesus Christ because we would be concerned for their souls. Otherwise, we would actually be hating them because we would unconcerned about where they are heading.
Baby is there something analogous to a "No Call List" I could possibly get on? Something like a no proselytizing list?

Again you are giving undue authority to a 2000 year old book that has gone through thousands of translations and alterings and that has no magical essence.

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 Post subject: Re: RELIGION
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:15 pm 
I have to wonder...

If a practicing Islam wished to convert you, and sat and blabbered on and on about his Master, would proselytizing suddenly be not okay?


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 Post subject: Re: RELIGION
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:23 pm 
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I don't know that they would refer to their version of a god as master but it would still be undesirable to be a targeted as just another "notch" for them to work their way to their heaven. Before someone starts to save me I think it is their burden to prove that there is something to be saved "from" or "for" and that argument I have never encountered in any coherent form.

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 Post subject: Re: RELIGION
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:15 pm 
Aye, Broca. That's it.

I have no wish to convert to Christianity, because frankly, I have no reason to. Many people just cannot seem to fathom that people don't need Christianity to get their jollies. I am a perfectly happy, worthwhile and charitable person even though I don't subscribe to mythology. Some people require religion's structure, but I do not.

I've been told that I could be saved, but from what? **** 's fire and the wrath of God? If I don't believe in those items, how is it supposed to frighten me? And if it only takes fear to turn me into a Christian, then I wouldn't be a very good Christian, now would I?

I'm tired of being indoctrinated. Does it show? (*smile*) Baby seems to know the reasoning behind every non-Christian's apparent "hatred" of religion. And apparently, to disagree with religion is to be against it in every manner! If this is true, I must be a terrorist...

All this discomfort over the personal values of others. Sheesh.


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 Post subject: Re: RELIGION
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:40 pm 
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It's been a long time since I've been able to read the messages on the board. But I can see that no matter how long I'm gone, the conversations seem to steer back to religion, etc. and baby is still on her box. Thanks for the laughs today, I needed them.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:16 am 
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 Post subject: Re: RELIGION
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:12 pm 
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Dopey,with the topic headline all in caps, I don't know how I missed that it was about religion. :)
This was exactly my point.


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 Post subject: Re: RELIGION
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:37 pm 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dopey Dwarf:
Why aren't all faiths talked about in school? Why is there a fear of talking about relgion at all in schools?[/QB]
I suppose they fear that if people talked about it all the inconsistencies would began to show and what kind of society would we have if people began to question things?

The christian zealots would have a fit if some teacher had a class discussion on wicca, hinduism, or buddhism. University level education is of course a different story and if some had their way they would prevent any discussion there as well.

<small>[ February 17, 2005, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Abraham ]</small>

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 Post subject: Re: RELIGION
PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:37 pm 
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Just a few comments- i'm one of the believers in the "Jesus is the son of God" hocus. I say "hocus" because it is that to a lot of people, because there are a lot of misconceptions. First of all- i don't think it was Jesus's intention to be pushed on people as a Master. The whole "master" title is better left to the S&M folk. Don't get me wrong. Son of God is a seat of high authority. No doubt there's power there. But it seemed like Jesus was pushing the "friend" envelope more than anything. I don't think that any of his teachings should be taken as a direct command. He seemed to set the example, and urged us to "go and do the same." As far as pushing out the message to other people- nobody likes anything force fed. Take, for example, an infant eating peas. Most of them turn their heads and spit it out, because it's not presented in the most appetizing way. Use that same model, only replace "infant" with "disbeliever" and "peas" with "gospel". I think a lot of "Christians" (please excuse the magnitude of my quotation mark usage....they're so fun!) anyway...a lot of "Christians" get up on their proverbial high horse, and a really good thing goes to waste. I think faith is a really healthy thing, to an extent. But more and more i see people out there using faith as a crutch. If things go wrong, God is to blame. It's all God's doing. It's not fair to leave everything up to God, and to put your shortcomings onto him. Like any relationship, you have to be willing to meet halfway... at least half way. But you should be willing to go farther if that's what it takes. And that doesn't always mean extra effort. What i'm getting to here is that if people can't make someone believe right away, they push harder and harder. And eventually both sides get so built up with arrogance that neither will cave in, and it all just becomes a lost cause. I think more people should get into the St. Francis model of preaching. "Go out into the streets and preach the Gospel. When necessary, use words."

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 2:15 am 
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:00 am 
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 Post subject: Re: RELIGION
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:07 am 
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Dopey: How is the new governor coming?

I often find it amusing that the party the talks the most about reducing the role of government in people's lifes is the one most ardent about increasing the government's role in people's decisions on reproduction, marriage, free speech, what they can read, etc. The book banning you mention is always peculiar to me. The bible has many expressions of violence, torture, rape, homosexuality, etc., yet it is seldom selected for a ban.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:16 pm 
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