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The Tomahawk Leader is a state and national prize-winning weekly newspaper serving the scenic Northwoods area in and around Tomahawk, WI.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:06 pm 
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Anyone else think it is sad that a gas station in Appleton had to put a sign up saying they ARE NOT owned by Exxon to try and avoid customer resentment from recent profit results.

Something tells me a company making 10 billion in a quarter or what ever some of the resent results were isn't putting much effort into keeping it's prices down.

New idea: I'm usually against adding random taxes but lets put a 10% profit tax on oil companies. If they reinvest the money back into research (on oil reduction) or finding more oil within 6 months then the extra tax will be removed.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:14 pm 
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It's more sad that we haven't developed the fuel cells, solar cells, nuclear power, etc to make Exxon obsolete. The OPEC embargo should have been the wake up call. We have that capability. It's past the time to flex our research potential!!!

<small>[ August 06, 2006, 11:17 PM: Message edited by: Jeff Boettcher ]</small>

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:56 am 
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I have noticed something for some time now that really makes me wonder. Did you ever notice that the gas stations always raise the price on Friday. Just happens to be pay day for a lot of people who will stop after work to fill up, and all the tourists are coming through on Friday heading north. Coincidence, I don't think so. Sounds like a perfect opportunity to pad the acct. sheets a little. :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:47 pm 
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It is sad that gas station make you pre-pay, have to put up signs when they only get $0.10 on the gallon and all of the anger. Prices are high and I am angry but I know why it is this way and I have to wait it out. I had a great conversation with my friend about this, and why prices are so high, or least for Americans they think it's high. Gas prices have been hovering around the $4-5+ mark in Germay since the early nineties. People think that the oil companies are gouging us, and they might be to an extent, but it is OPEC that sets the price of crude oil, not the oil companies, so DO NOT blame the oil companies or the President for high gas prices. The only thing the President has to do with oil is how much of a tax the Feds put on it. The main reason the prices are high is simple, it is supply and demand. The demand is high, the supply is intermediate, and so the price goes up. Contributing factors into this problem are:

1) Old and fewer refineries. Katrina didnt help this much either taking out a bunch of them in the south. I think the oil companies should build refineries in Gary Indiana, or the Southern Lake Michigan bay, and supply the Midwest and the east coast with gas from there, rather than the south and west coast. Plus they need to build newer more efficient refineries to replace the obsolete ones.

2) 22 different summer grades of gasoline. People you only need about five to six, not 22. Car companies are to blame for this one. Get rid of about 15 of them and your set. That would help supply a lot more.

3) There are fewer crude oil tankers, do to repair, old age etc. We have plenty of oil out there between the Middle East, Russia, Venezuela, and the US, just not enough tankers sometimes to take it to the refineries.

4) And the biggest problem China. Those communist idiots are finally figuring out that communism and socialism do not work and are following the cool people in the west and becoming a developed, modern, civilized country. So in turn they too are consuming like a 1000 times more fuel than they ever had before, because the Chinese now have a better standard of living and can own and operate a motor vehicles. Thus more oil consumption.


With that out of the way, how do alleviate the problem? Well one, bring supply up to meet demand to bring prices to equilibrium, but that is a short-term fix and not necessarily the correct one. Doing that only depletes our natural resources quicker, and then we are really screwed. Jeff had it right. The way to fix this is to bring demand down, and you do this by introducing and developing alternate fuels sources, and better fuel-efficient technology. This takes time, and a ton of money, capital and R&D to achieve this goal. They have been doing this for quite awhile now, and we are just beginning to see this technology come to market because it has become cheaper to introduce it to the product, i.e., hybrid cars, ethanol fuel, and natural gas to run our cars. According to ABC news I beleive, Oil companies reinvest half of their profits back into production, R&D, and exploration etc., so they aren't just getting rich and doing nothing they are reinvesting it. So it will come down people you just have to wait it out. Thats my story and Im sticking to it.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:56 pm 
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Supply and demand, yes, you are correct. Most people I know have already cut back, however the people with the gas guslering expensive vehical do not care, because if you can afford a very expensive vehical then you do not care if it takes $100.00 to fill your gas tank, you have the money. I however can not afford to even go see our grandchildern in Indiana. I ride my motercycle as my main means of transportation and have for a lot of years. My jeep only gets used in the winter.(mid December-Feb.) I am not even real happy with 40 to 45 mpg that the motercycle gets, there are cars now that they say get that and my motercycle is much smaller and lighter. The people I have asked if the price of gas will affect their travel plans say no they will drive anyway. I may start using my horse as my main form of transportation, I wonder what my boss would say to that.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:10 pm 
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Last edited by Dopey Dwarf on Mon May 25, 2009 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:34 pm 
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Don't fool yourself into thinking that wind energy is easy to get into. Just like everything else all anyone near it will do is complain.

They are working to put up wind farms in Eastern Wisconsin. Complaints go from, "I don't want to see them" to "My epileptic son will have seizures because of them" to "it will lower property values" to "they'll kill birds".

BP is planning to invest $8 Billion over 10 years in alternative energy. I'd like to see a lot more but the tech isn't ready in a lot of cases...


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:03 am 
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Wind energy, now something I do know somethings about. I have had a electric generating wind mill for going on three years now. I have not found one dead bird below it, the tower we have does not make much noise, there are many different models, so I can only speak of the one we have, it is very quite. When the blades are spinning 150-200 rpms it does make some sounds. Nothing major. It was worth every penny. It did not lower any land value, in fact, the town asser showed up about 1 month after it was operational and wanted to know the investment value so she could reasses our property, I sent her away to do some research, as per Wisconsin law that says renewable energy devises can not be included to reasses property value for taxation purposes. She called two days later, apoligized and said I was right. So in fact we made a major investment to our property value and can not be taxed for it. My neighbors want to run lines to their homes, I tell them to put up their own tower. Yes, it was expensive, but there are many ways to cut costs, such as doing most of the work assembling the tower oneself. I am able to think long term, it will pay itself off in 10 to 15 years, depending on mother nature of course. If the price of energy continues to rise and we all know it will, it may even be paid off earlier. I have electric heat, plus of course all the rest of the electrical appliences that are necessary for a comfortable life, heated stock tanks(a constant draw) and we have a large breed dog rescue and that means a few heated water buckets (also a constant draw). My bills went from $300 to $400 a month in winter to the highest bill last winter of $125. If I average the savings over a year it has shaved $200 of my electric bill a month. Most people now days can not or will not think long term, it is "what can it do for me now," not "what are the long term affects." There are so many ways to reduce the consumption of energy, here is an easy one, slow down. I remember when I was younger the speed limit was reduced to 55mph nationaly, to save energy. It works, if I drive my bike at 55mph I get 45-50 mpg and at 65mph I only get 35 to 40 mpg. Hang your clothes on the line to dry. Turn off the TV and read a book, go for a walk instead of a ride. I could go on for long time but I am sure you all get the idea.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:24 pm 
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All this still does not answer the question, if supplies are that tight and they are doing all this exploration where did the "RECORD PROFITS" come from the past few quarters. Record profits to me mean that they are charging high prices to make more money and customer be d***d. Call it what you like, I call it GREED ! :mad:

Also don't expect any help from our government, the oil companies own them all. It isn't just Bush, it's all of them, Dem. and Rep. alike. When the oil companies donate to both parties there is a reason for it. They win no-matter who wins.

<small>[ August 09, 2006, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: Old Scout ]</small>

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:52 pm 
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Nugget, I remember you putting that tower in. What I was referring to is the farms of windmills though. Not everyone can put their own windmill in but if you can pick certain areas that are known for their wind you can generate a lot of power.

Even the companies putting these in have said they expect many of the arguments I mentioned.

As far as the record profits, only possible point that can be made is a reminder that there are minimum markup laws on gas. Not sure what effect this has on the actual oil company profits though. I didn't know there were minimums on E85 though, one retailer is complaining about that (he had a complaint filed against him for being to cheep).


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:46 am 
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The people who need to beaten to a pulp is not oil company execs, it's Wall street speculators. These jerks at the Dow Jones are the one who anticipate prices and are the one that are driving up the prices. If anybody is to blame it's them.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:20 pm 
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I repeat....

It's more sad that we haven't developed the fuel cells, solar cells, nuclear power, etc to make Exxon obsolete. The OPEC embargo should have been the wake up call. We have that capability. It's past the time to flex our research potential!!!

Dump your SUV or gas guzzlin' sedan. Those rare times you need to "haul a load", rent. The greater the demand, the lower the cost will be for the hybrids.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:18 pm 
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Now that Exxon is rolling in so much cash (again) perhaps they will finish paying their bills for the 1989 Valdez oil spill. Instead they are spending it on more lobbyists so despite vast record profits the oil industry still picked up massive taxpayer-funded subsidies in the last energy bill.

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