I see the city is looking at opening more streets to ATV's. I sometimes wonder when vehicles that were designed and intended to be used in the woods or on the farm for work vehicles suddenly became something to drive to town to do your shopping. I can see having a couple of access points to get out to the trails but this is getting ridiculous ! ! ! Wis. ave. and 4th st. are main avenues through town with a lot of traffic. I can just see someone backing out of a parking place on Wis. Ave. and not being able to see the dang thing and hitting or being hit by one. Then the fun begins.

As far as I am concerned, when they pay $75.00 for a license, have brake and turn signal lights, have to wear a seat belt and follow all the rules that I have to follow with my car then they have the right to be on the streets or highway. Until then they should be used as they were intended. They are not a car or a Motorcycle, they are not meant to be used as one, and they don't belong on the streets ! ! ! !

It is about time the city starts using some common sense in making these decisions ! ! ! Frankly this is the dumbest thing I have heard of since they brought it up the last time !

_________________
God and the Soldier we all adore,
In times of trouble and then no more
when war is over and all things righted
God is forgotten, the old soldier Slighted.

Old Scout,

I'm not particularly for or against ATVs on the streets but your argument has some flaws...



While most of the ATVs I deal with are the larger "work" kind, they have all been single passenger models that are larger than my motorcycle and I sit just as high on them. If you're worried you can't see an ATV then I'm worried you're not looking for me on a motorcycle or someone on a moped and that's a concern...



Wisconsin's motorcycle and moped registration fees are $23 for two years for a standard registration. I'm planning to put collector plates on my motorcycle at my next renewal which because I already have a car with collector plates will cost me $23 and I'll never pay another renewal as long as I own it. ATV registration is $30 for two years (to the DNR, but still more than a motorcycle) for a standard public use registration.

Every ATV I've ridden on has had a brake light (I'm sure there are some that don't but I have yet to see one). Mopeds and Class 1 motorcycles are also not required to have turn signals in Wisconsin. Motorcycles and Mopeds also don't have seat belts (although many of the newer two-up ATV's do have them).

In Montana, if you add a horn and a handlebar mirror to most standard ATV's you can actually register them as a motorcycle. They're that close to meeting the same legal requirements...

Motorcycles are required to have their head light on which makes them much easier to see. (I just wish it was required for cars as most people don't have the sense to turn them on unless it is to dark to see) I have yet to see an ATV with a head light on when on the streets. Being smaller than a car will make them harder to see.
I also rode a motorcycle for many years so I am aware of the fact that you have to ride defensively, especially in the down town area where people are backing from packing places and at intersections. I also had to take a drivers test to be licensed in addition to my regular license. Bet you don't have to do that on an ATV.

Paying a license fee to the DNR is not the same as a standard vehicle license. The original intent was to support the trail system and does nothing for supporting the highway system. If they want to drive them like a car or motorcycle then they should be licensed as one, until then they should be used for what they were originally intended for.

I have had an ATV for almost 20 years and have yet to take it on the public trails or on the road yet I pay the fee to the DNR. I didn't buy it to use for running to town, and besides that if I want to go to town or to some other establishment I much prefer using my car as it is more comfortable.

If they can run them on the streets and highways, does this mean I can take my Jeep and drive it on the ATV trails ? After all, fair is fair.

By the way, you will note that Mopeds are not allowed on four lane highways even if they are licensed.

_________________
God and the Soldier we all adore,
In times of trouble and then no more
when war is over and all things righted
God is forgotten, the old soldier Slighted.

And adding that requirement to the law would make sense. Even snowmobiles have their headlight on. However, mopeds are not required to have their headlight on during daylight hours. So again, if you aren't looking carefully enough to see an ATV, you need to be looking more closely because you're going to kill someone.

Also, according to state ATV laws they are supposed to have their head lamp and tail lamp on when operating on a roadway legally.



You also don't have to get an extra license in order to drive a moped or class 1 motorcycle. You do have to take ATV safety class in order to drive an ATV if you were born after 1988. I believe earlier than that you had to either take the class or have a drivers license.



And that's your choice. That doesn't mean others shouldn't be able to use a vehicle in the way most appropriate for them either.



If it's an old school Jeep (which would be awesome by the way), and is narrow enough to properly fit on the trails, I don't necessarily have an issue with it. There really isn't much difference between the new side-by-side ATVs and a Willis style Jeep.



And neither are the ATVs. The only true four lane highway I can think of in the Tomahawk area is Hwy 51. Which is a state highway and ATVs aren't allowed. And to be specific, it's not four lane highways that mopeds aren't allowed on, it's freeways (and any other road that they are specifically banned on).

Frankly Kerry, we can argue this all day and play what if games till the cows come home.

This has nothing to do with mopeds, or motorcycles.

The bottom line is these machines were never designed or intended for use on the street or highway and they don't belong there.

That's all I have to say about that !

_________________
God and the Soldier we all adore,
In times of trouble and then no more
when war is over and all things righted
God is forgotten, the old soldier Slighted.

I agree with Old Scout. I've said all along that, if people want to operate ATVs on public roads, the ATVs should be street legal and the operators of legal age and licensed. That's the requirement in Montana and other states that I'm aware of.

One of the big concerns about ATVs in the downtown is, according to city ordinance, ATVs are required to travel to the far right of paved streets, which motorcycles are not. This means ATVs will be "hugging" the bumpers of diagonally parked vehicles when they navigate the downtown. Whether or not that is safe?

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Gone Fishin'

Looking for flaws in vehicle standards is like looking for Illinois plates in Minocqua; they're pretty easy to find. A person can take and pass the state driver's license test in a Fiat 500. With that license, and no other training, they would be legal to drive a Pickup with a pull behind camper and a boat/trailer combo behind that, as long as the total lenght is not longer than 65'. If someone is going to drive like an idiot, they will do so regardless of what vehicle they are driving.

_________________
"There are two parties in politics: Republicans and Democrats. Republicans have bad ideas, Democrats have no ideas." - Lewis Black

Over time the local folks may get used to having to dodge them on the streets and hopefully not too many of them will get hit until then.

What is going to happen during tourist season when all those crazy flatlanders from down south, ( anywhere south of Merrill ) come up and aren't aware of these woods toys running around lose on the city streets.

_________________
God and the Soldier we all adore,
In times of trouble and then no more
when war is over and all things righted
God is forgotten, the old soldier Slighted.

You can ride a bicycle on any street. It's probably easier to see/hear an ATV than a bike. Look before you back-up, turn, etc. and it shouldn't be a problem.

Law requires insurance for automobiles and motorcycles. ATVs are not required to have insurance to operate on the streets. ATV registration and their portion of the gas tax does not go to maintaining the roadways; it goes to maintaining the ATV trails. ATV operators are not required to have driver’s license. A twelve year old may drive on the streets if they take the ATV course. The ATV course does not cover rules of the road. If an ATV operator gets a ticket for a traffic violation or a DUI, no points are access against his/her driver’s license and there is no impact on his/her auto insurance. The speed limit for an ATV within 150 feet from a dwelling is 10 mph. The speed limit for an ATV within 100 feet a bicyclist or a pedestrian is 10 mph, (stat 23.33.) I ride a bicycle and I ride faster than 10 mph, so I should be passing ATVs; however, they blow by me like I’m standing still. They also seem to be irritated to have to share the same road space that I am using as a bicyclist. Does anyone see a problem here?

I sure do, intolerance and a lack of understanding on your part.

I'm so dang sick of the attitude that "If I don't like it, understand it, or participate in it.......than you can't do it." There is a 99.999% chance that I will never ride on an ATV on a Tomahawk city street, but I sure the heck am not going to tell others they can't because I don't.

All of the whining, bellyaching, and fuddie-dudieness you guys are doing is simply solved by a few common sense rules and tust in the local PD to enforce them.

River Rat
What I see is a total lack of understanding on your part of the points we are trying to make.
And what makes you think that there is any common sense involved in this decision. All that is driving this is the almighty $$$$$.

Common sense is left out of the equation. And you actually believe that the police have nothing better to do than watch what the ATV drivers are doing.

Apparently those who will have to deal with this on an everyday basis obviously have a different opinion than those who don't live here .

_________________
God and the Soldier we all adore,
In times of trouble and then no more
when war is over and all things righted
God is forgotten, the old soldier Slighted.

I read all the "points" being made, I understand how silly they are.
All the points made also apply to Hugodog's bicycle:

He dosn't need insurace to ride his bike on the street.
None of the registration fees for his bike are carried over to the city streets.
A 12 year old can ride a bike on the city street.
Bikes are required to "hug" the right side of the roadway.
Bikes are hard to see.
Someone will eventually die ridding a bicycle on a city street.
There are no required bicycle saftey courses that cover "rules of the road."
His bike dosn't require turn signals nor seatbelts.

To each there own, or do you want to ban bicycles too?

Not everyone makes a weekend of watching Lawrence Welk on PBS, and going to bed at 8:00pm. Fuddie-duddiness, plan and simple.

Considering that you don't know me I will ignore such a dumb comment as due to you having a lack of any intelligent argument.

I have probably been more places and done more in my spare time than you will do in your life time. Think "Been there, Done that" and I haven't seen a bed before midnight in years as I have too much to do to waste my time sleeping.

The bottom line is these machines were never designed or intended for use on the street or highway and they don't belong there.

_________________
God and the Soldier we all adore,
In times of trouble and then no more
when war is over and all things righted
God is forgotten, the old soldier Slighted.

That was not ment to be a discription of yourself, but more a whimsical analogy of the resistance to resonable changes in our society put forth by what I perseive as the majority of our elderly citizens. If you are not in that catagory, great! I mean you no disrespect personally. I'm just glad you don't ask who Lawrence Welk is, LOL.

Can I assume you want to ban bicycles from the roadways for the above mentioned reasons?, you didn't address that.

And, I want to know how I can avoid paying tax on gas when I put it in my ATV. That tax goes tword road improvment. Every time I fill up my ATV the City of Tomahawk gets a tiny little check for their roads. Heck, if I can't ride on roads I shouldn't be paying that tax, correct?

There is enough 'traffic' on any streets these days...autos, trucks, motorcycles, bikes, pedestrians, etc. ATVs just don't seem like a good addition by any (at least my) test of reasonableness. What's next...go-carts, gas powered skate boards, anything else that uses gas and can transport people?

This subject can be argued till **** freezes over but there comes a time when you look at the subject and say...nah, not a good mix for the streets.

The litmus test is common sense and ATVs just don't pass the test. You can make a 'legal' argument why they should be allowed but 'legal' doesn't account for stupid. Sure other things don't either but why add more just because past decisions may have been wrong.

Another way to think about this is like when your little kid comes and asks you if he can go on a camping trip with one of his friends and you just know in your heart that this just doesn't seem right and you tell him no. You just KNOW it's wrong...that's how I feel about ATVs on the street. Bad idea !!!

Maybe they should be called NSVs (Not Street Vehicles) instead of ATVs....

p.s. And who the heck is Myron Floren ???

_________________
Ken Martell
kenmartell@gmail.com
Thankful to be alive and healthy. Proud to call Tomahawk my hometown.

Who the heck is Myron Floren? Accordion on Lawrence Welk?

_________________
Life is too short for drama & petty things!
So, laugh insanely, love truly and forgive quickly!

ODDS BODKINS!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqURmXMEGFI
'
'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3Qnlu9Nfj8
'
And now, let`s have a little fun....a 1,,,,, anna 2,,,,, anna 3 ............
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh543r4HqNE
'

I was afraid this would happen...but River Rat started it by mentioning LW !!!

Maybe the original ATV topic has run its course with arguments and opinions from all sides...I don't know.

I do know that I was in love with Janet Lennon...the youngest of LW's Lennon Sisters and nobody can take that away from me !!!

And yes, Myron could certainly play the accordion like no one else !!! But I don't think anyone else has ever played the accordion in recorded history other than him...and a couple Polka bands from Minocqua, of course !!!

_________________
Ken Martell
kenmartell@gmail.com
Thankful to be alive and healthy. Proud to call Tomahawk my hometown.

I met Janet Lennon a few years back in Branson. She sure has changed since they were on TV. For some reason she looked a lot older than I remember.

_________________
God and the Soldier we all adore,
In times of trouble and then no more
when war is over and all things righted
God is forgotten, the old soldier Slighted.

Here`s a group that plays in Milwaukee, and around the state. Catch them if you ever get the chance.
'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZadQXQR ... sults_main
'

VERY nice vocals....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95tEidQf ... 11&index=8

Once you hear Roll Out The Barrel you NEVER forget it. I heard a lot of that growing up in my folks tavern in Tomahawk in the 50s !!!

For Old Scout...read yesterday that Peggy Lennon just turned 72... !!!

_________________
Ken Martell
kenmartell@gmail.com
Thankful to be alive and healthy. Proud to call Tomahawk my hometown.

OH MY, what does that say about us ! !

_________________
God and the Soldier we all adore,
In times of trouble and then no more
when war is over and all things righted
God is forgotten, the old soldier Slighted.

Seems to me you can cover the entire argument with one statement:

ATVs must meet or exceed all the requirements that apply to other street legal vehicles including safety and insurance concerns.

But you think ATVs may be a problem. Go to Phoenix! Those street leagle golf carts are all over the place. But they themselves are not the problem. It is the old duffers with an average of 196 years old or something like that. Most of them can't hear or see and those that can don't give a dang anyway!!

But you have to love them. And they drive even worse on the golf courses!! More power to them... just get out their way, they have places to go and things to do!! I really think they are great! Heck, two weeks out of every year I am one of them!