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The Tomahawk Leader is a state and national prize-winning weekly newspaper serving the scenic Northwoods area in and around Tomahawk, WI.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:07 am 
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leave the attitude at the state line and clean up after yourselves. While on a rafting trip on the Wolf River we ran into some very inconsiderate out of state visitors. For those that have never rafted the Wolf, a rule exists that no disposables are allowed on the river. Beverages can be put in thermal type jugs and tied to the raft. We had an encounter with an out-of-state gentleman, wrong choice of words, an out-of-state jerk, that seemed to think that beer in cans is ok to haul along rafting because "he's been paying to play here for eight years". It was too bad that my husband's paddle slipped as it did. My point is paying to play in Wisconsin doesn't give tourists the right to break the rules. Those of us that call Wisconsin home pay daily with our tax dollars so other folk have the privelage to vacation in our great outdoors. That wasn't the only bad attitude we encountered. A couple that had been fined last year by the DNR for having dispoables on the river let us know how unwelcoming that makes our state look. Too bad so sad was my thought. I don't mind sharing the Wisconsin outdoors with those from other states, what I do mind is cleaning up after these inconsiderate slobs. A million bucks per vacation would not pay for the enviromental impact trash left behind causes. So come and visit, but leave the attitude at the state line, follow the rules, and bring trash bags.

<small>[ July 17, 2003, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: Deb Richardson ]</small>

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 5:20 pm 
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>Those of us that call Wisconsin home pay daily with our tax dollars so other folk have the privelage to vacation in our great outdoors<

I was born and raised in Wisconsin and still have family living on one of the original land grants in a Southern Wisconsin county named after my family. I myself have not lived in Wisconsin for some time but still visit. But no one in Wisconsin or anywhere else on this planet pays one red cent for me to vacation in Wisconsin. And if you do, you need to toss out a bunch of your politicians and replace them with some that have at least a basic understanding of the economics of the tourist industry.

With that said, it still does not excuse some of the outright nasty behavior of some tourist, both in actions and attitude. However, Wisconsin is not alone in suffering fools. We in California, a tourist Mecca some many times that of Wisconsin, probably endures it’s fair share of “attitude and trash” dished our from Wisconsinites.

But just like Wisconsin, the overall benefit is much greater then the damage done. Both states charge tourist dearly for the right, and it is a right, not a privilege in a free America, to travel and visit in their states.

Neither Wisconsin nor California could possible replace the financial benefit to the states as billions of dollars flow into the coffers. Tomahawk would be hard pressed to attract suitable industry that could replace the millions of dollars that flows into the community, of which everyone benefits either directly or indirectly.

As for jerks that fail to obey the rules I could not agree more with you. No one pays for the right to break the rules. Congrates to your hubby for some good paddle work!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 7:49 pm 
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"(But no one in Wisconsin or anywhere else on this planet pays one red cent for me to vacation in Wisconsin.)"

I beg to differ ! The tourist dollers support the business that are there to cater to them. But it is our tax dollars that support the DNR, State Parks, and pay the cleanup bills for the trash left behind.
I really doubt that the state park stickers pay the entire bill for supporting them, and I am sure the DNR budget is much larger than what the tourists spend for fishing and hunting license.

So, in reality we are paying to provide you with a place to take your vacation ! :roll:

<small>[ July 17, 2003, 07:55 PM: Message edited by: Old Scout ]</small>

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:15 pm 
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Well said Scout!

I hope you've had a great summer so far!

Don't forget, our tax dollars pay for the Tourism board ads encouraging those visitors. The wierd thing is, I think that board is part of the DNR too.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 6:42 am 
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Hi Jeff,

The Wisconsin Department of Tourism is not related to the DNR, and they are the department that coordinates tourism advertising for the state.

As a side note, tourism is the second largest industry in the state (behind manufacturing).

Tomahawk is more fortunate than most tourism communities, as we have a great balance between tourism and industry, and do not solely rely on tourism for our stable economy.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 4:12 pm 
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That’s just not true Old Scout.

The DNR and State Parks infrastructure would have to be in place even if you didn’t have a single out of state visitor. And yes the residents pay directly into those organizations where tourist may not. However, the jobs that a very, very large number of those taxpayers working at are in some cases funded 100% by visitor dollars. And the spin-off jobs add additional monies, indirectly funded via the tourist buck. Those that have absolutely no exposure what so ever to tourist dollars are merely paying their own way. Not to mention that a great deal of the tourist problems are created by tourist form your own state. I know, because years ago I worked at cleaning cabins, boats, mowing the lawns, trimming tress and yes hauling garbage left behind form tourist. Seemed to me some of those coming out of Milwaukee, Madison and others cities in Wisconsin were at least as bad as any coming form anywhere else. Same thing in California, some of the worst tourist come right out of Los Angeles, both in smug arrogance and leaving a mess as well as causing damages. Not to mention some of the outright criminal behavior.

As I have stated before, if your parks and forest managers and other tourist orientated agencies and businesses are not getting every single dime (and a nice big fat profit) out of your tourist, then they are not being run properly. The tourist trade is a plus, plus to Wisconsin and it’s tax payers and it has been for years.

Incidentally, in California the private resorts can’t hold a candle to Wisconsin operators. I’d kill to have a Duck Point, or Feases’s (last two places I have stayed in Tomahawk area) any where in California. Been looking for 30 years, still haven’t found it. These people just don’t get it here. And talk about attitude, the people that run these places in California think they are doing you a big favor by taking your money. In Wisconsin we get treated like royalty comparatively.

<small>[ July 18, 2003, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: JFlosum ]</small>


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 4:22 pm 
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JFlosum, as Old Scout and others stated, our tax dollars do pay for many of the vacation spots in Wisconsin, state parks, campgrounds, etc. To me vacationing does become a privelage not a right. Token fees are paid to use such places by out of staters, but the bottom line is my tax dollars help maintain these places. I feel very privileged and appreciative given the opportunity to use facilities while traveling in other states. I also feel that the opinion that it is my "right" is the begining of the bad attitude.

Granted attitude and trash can come from any state, however I'm sure in California those tourists aren't Wisconsinites. If by chance they would be Wisconsinites they must be originally from the state that my bad attitude tourists live.

Yes, my hubby does have the ability to pull that paddle incident without looking like a real you know what. Thanks for the kudos.

<small>[ July 18, 2003, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: Deb Richardson ]</small>

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 9:07 pm 
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Are you all saying just tourists are throwing trash on our fair county???? I see plenty of locals doing the same....Remember, every year that there isn't snow and the summers are crap, all locals tend to complain, because tourism is less than normal.....so, don't throw stones when you may live in glass houses....Besides, our local indegents at Lincoln Hills and the Lincoln County Jail wouldn't be out on those sunny days because they would have nothing to do...no trash to pick up!

<small>[ July 18, 2003, 09:09 PM: Message edited by: allbutashy1 ]</small>


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:15 pm 
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Swish-
Thanks for setting me straight. I'm fairly certain that back in '75 the Tourism board was a part of the DNR, but obviously that isn't the case anymore.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2003 6:55 am 
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Yup, I agree, the local’s do contribute to the vacation facilities. I said that above. But my point is, the negative impacts form visitors should be totally mitigated via direct fees and or other financial consideration. And those considerations should be sufficient enough to assure a very healthy profit. I hear a lot of people complain all the time about being gouged when they visit other states. I for one feel it is bargain at twice the price to spend time in Wisconsin.

I got the impression form the original posts that perhaps one thought or maybe it was actually the case, that tourist were getting a free ride. I certainly hope that is not the case. Get every last dime you possibly can from those people. It’s the only way of guaranteeing that next year and years after wards the area will be maintained in such a way that I and others will want to return.

There is no doubt in my mind that people form Wisconsin, at least those form areas like Tomahawk, are much better and more considerate vacationers then those that come from other states. But then again people that come form Wisconsin are much better everything then those that come from other states!!

As for the difference of rights and privileges to visit other states, it’s not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of a basic freedom to travel freely within the country the goes back to the very principals on which the country was founded. We are guaranteed the right to travel and live anywhere we want in the U.S.A. I basically agree with the attitude adjustment that many visitors need, but even if we wanted to keep some of these jerks out, we can’t. But we can discourage their belligerent behavior and make sure they pay for their “right” and prosecute the scofflaws.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 10:00 am 
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Granted slobs that trash the great outdoors come in all sizes, shapes, and state of residency. I'm well aware of that concept. However JFlosum, it is a privelage, the original creator of the land gave us that privelage, the fact that we have the freedom comes from our government. Do not abuse the privelage so the right is not taken away. A nice combination, wouldn't you say?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 10:15 am 
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Last edited by Dopey Dwarf on Mon May 25, 2009 3:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 9:37 pm 
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Dopey Dwarf,
I get bummed whenever my son & I go fishing. Here are folks who supposedly enjoy the "Great Outdoors" yet they leave discarded bait containers, lure packaging, lunch leftovers scattered over the banks & even in the water.
We've seen this from Wisconsin to Alaska. Where ever we fish, we always spend time after we're done collecting litter left by fellow "outdoorsmen".

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