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 Post subject: Looks like greed to me
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:10 pm 
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Perhaps someone could explain something to me. The Fall Ride brings in over 19 Million dollars into the area, every business and ultimatly all their employees and the city benefit. Yet the city can't afford to pay for police and clean up for something that benefits the community to that extent. All surounding communities also benefit. Perhaps it is time they donate some officers to assist under mutual aid without demanding that Tomahawk pay the bill. This is done for charity and yet everybody wants a piece of it. There are more people drinking and making a mess on the 4th at PowWow days than down town during Fall Ride, but that is ok because the city supports it. I'm sorry but the venders are not the ones making the mess, but yet they are supposed to pay the bill. The Fall ride people clean up the park after the event, where is the expense to the city. I guess I could see some consern but why single out one group. If they are going to do this then it should apply to all events instead of discriminating against one group. :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:24 pm 
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I can see both sides of the fence on this issue, as I have been on each side. As it is, and as it is proposed, the spaces at Sara Park are $350.00 and the cities "permit" will be $200.00, totalling $550.00. A crappy spot in "Sturgis" or "Daytona Bike Week" is $5,000.00, a decent spot is $10,000 and a good spot is $20,000. Granted the crowds there reach 450,000 compared to 30,000. So if we take the middle cost at these other events of $10,000 and divide by 15, which is the percentage of crowd difference the cost should be $666.66. So I guess it isn't a bad deal for a vendor at the Fall Ride. Furthermore "all locations" are good spots at the Fall Ride. Sara Park, the Speedway, downtown, private property, the Hog House etc. etc. A good vendor with decent stuff will make a thousand per day for four days. $4,000.00 for $550.00. If someone is selling 'schlock junk' and only sells a couple hundred worth a day, $1,000 in sales costing $550 for the space is prohibitive. So don't come to sell at the Fall Ride. Those vendors are more suited for their "local mall" flea markets in their hometown. Those spaces are $35.00 As a result, the miles of "schlock" won't be there at the Fall Ride taking up shoppers precious time.
I beleive the crowd would rather see unique and quality vendors than the stuff they can see at their local mall anyway. You may have noticed that the Fall Ride is attracting new and unique vendors from all over the country now. The vendors from Sturgis and Daytona are now showing up here at our event. So have no worry about losing the "schlock-sters".


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:33 am 
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Just one correction, The $200.00 charge is for a 200 Sq. ft. space, over that it goes to $500.00. Some of the small venders that do sell quality stuff will undoubtedly be pushed out. That as usual leaves all the profits for the big business. Kind of like when Walmart comes in and all the small local business close. :roll:

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:13 pm 
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Your very right Old Scout it is greed. The amout of money made off the Fall Ride in lets just say a 30 mile area is stagering compared to what they need to do the cleanup and for security. I would like to see a breakdown of these cost because I know a lot of the cleanup is not paid for by the City. Any of the vendors that do not want to pay the fee will just go outside the city limits but hey thats why we all shop in Merrill or Rhinelander now why would it be any diffrent for the Fall Ride. I would be curious to know though how the estimated dollar impact to the area compares to the amount of taxes paid by those businesses? If you were to just take the amount of money taken in on the video gambling in the city and take 25% of that you could pay for the security. And then there are those businesses that collect money for MDA but only a small percentage actually gets donated, rather than pocketing the rest they could put it towards Security and cleanup. The point is there are a lot of ways to pay for this without lowering what we collect for MDA. Also now that Harley Davidson wants control and say in what happens why don't they pay to justify the week of free advertising they get because they actually benefit more than MDA.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 4:26 pm 
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The difference between Tomahawk and other biker events is size. Tomahawk thinks we are so huge but they have never seen the other events. We get up to 40,000 and some figures put Sturgis and Daytona at over 600,000. Their vendors also vend up to 12 days as opposed to 3 1/2 in Tomahawk. Vendors at SARA Park are also only able to be open 8-9 hours a day as opposed to 24/7 for others. $200 extra for a food vendor ($500 for some of them) is a lot of burgers to sell.If there were no street dances what would the cost to the city be? Why should vendors at the only event that raises money for the charity this was suppposed to be about pay for expenses for street dances when they aready pay a fee that is used to cover garbage, sanitation, security, law enforcement, safety at SARA Park.
If the people that put on the event at SARA Park could not afford it would someone else help them? If they can't afford to cover the expenses at the street dances, should they be held? SARA Park is closed during 90-95% of the time the expenses to the city are incurred.
But this issue was not the only factor that contributed to the resignation of the Tomahawk Fall Ride Committee.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 7:59 pm 
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Scrap the whole Crap is what I say. Let those give to MDA who will do so out of the kindness and generosity of thier hearts. Stop trying to make a buck in the name of charity. If you have to use people stricken with muscular dystrophy in order for your business to make it through the winter, maybe you shouldn't be in business. I think people are really just fooling themselves if they really believe this event is about MDA. Would this event even exist if absolutely NO money "trickled" down?

--let the vulturing begin--


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 8:54 pm 
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aphephilia, I'm not being snide in asking, would you feel the same way if Harley wasn't attached to the Fall ride? How would you feel if it were an event that involved, hmmmmm, let's say Honda that brought 40,000 ATV enthusiasts to Tomahawk to raise money for MDA.
Quite frankly I don't think you will ever see the majority of people donate just to donate. Granted there are many that feel srongly about certain causes and do just that, donate. However,it does seem that our society has the need to congregate when it comes to fund raising.

<small>[ February 17, 2005, 07:55 PM: Message edited by: Deb Richardson ]</small>

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:26 pm 
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Yes Deb, as a matter of fact, I would feel the same way. If it was really about MDA it would be different, but it isn't. It may have started out that way, but it's gone way beyond that. MDA isn't the "cause" at hand anymore. It's all about the "trickle down" economics for local area businesses and the city as well. You see, that's why it's so coveted, so prized, and why people get SO protective and defensive about it. People use MDA to legitimize the greed, that's all.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:53 am 
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I'm thinking you are missing one big point here. The people that put on the Fall Ride do it as a fund raiser for MDA. It is the city and the local business that are getting greedy and want more and more from the event. The event is an opportunity for people to get together, have some fun and support a charity. Don't lump them in with the ones that are getting greedy and want more than their fair share. :roll:

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:20 pm 
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Old Scout, if that post was aimed towards me, I think it is you who are missing MY point! Nowhere did I say the Fall Ride Committee was guilty of the greed. I explicitly stated the local area businesses and the city.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:50 pm 
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I'm sorry, but I have to side with the city on this one. It costs real dollars to put on the extra security required and handle the other organization and clean-up issues. The city has to pay for these things. City money comes from only two sources: property taxes and fees. I really can't see the property tax payer funding the expenses for the Fall Ride, and the only other way to finance some of this is to charge the vendors and others who might be subject to associated permits. In an environment where the school district is talking about having to charge fees for any and all users of school facilities (because we simply cannot afford to host events for free anymore), I don't see why user fees associated with the Fall Ride should not be increased to pay for costs accrued by the city. In an unrelated area, I would love to see how much, if any, of the MDA money goes back into this community, but I guess that should be reserved for another thread somewhere.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:22 pm 
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I guess this brings up another question. Why only the venders at SARA park, they are a minority compared to the ones set up on private property all over town. If security and cleanup are the real reasons then all venders that come into town for the event should be charged the same regardless of location. Those that are in the Dollar store parking lot and Nelsons are getting off cheap and causing just as many security issues and as much clean-up. I guess it is just the heavy handed way the city does things that just don't seem fair or right. :roll:

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:12 pm 
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After reading the posts I still feel the same. If the vendors at SARA Park are already paying a fee to cover the costs of garbage, porta potties, security, and law enforcement at SARA Park, why should they have to pay additional fees to cover these costs incurred from the street dances. These expenses for the street dances have been covered by the group that oversaw this getting donations. This year they asked for part of those expenses to be put into the city budget, approximately $14,000. That is what they are trying to cover with the transient vendor fee. My point is, if you can't cover the expenses of an event why are they having the street dances. The activities at SARA Park are fully self funded by the money raised that weekend. They don't ask for the city or anyone else to help cover their costs. And again, what is leftover goes to a charity. Why are they so afraid to ask the businesses in the are that make a huge profit help cover some costs.
Comments have been made that the events at SARA Park are the cause of everyone coming to town. Well shame on those people that put that event on. Shame on them for making businesses in the area try to drag all that money to the bank on Monday. Shame on them for bringing in 19 million dollars to the area economy. Shame on them for boosting the tourism in the area.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:20 pm 
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The money raised that goes to MDA stays in this area. It is not like the Labor Day Telethon where 70% or more goes to administration. I personally know of three families in Tomahawk and Rhinelander who benefit. The money raised goes to the North Central MDA District which is about the north east portion of the state of Wisconsin. The money is used for leg braces, wheel chairs, summer camp, support groups, consultations, other medical necessities amoung other services. The office is in Green Bay if you would like to call and get more information on what this money is used for.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:00 pm 
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Is the fee for transient vendors being charged to anyone wishing to set-up on any city property? SARA park and the downtown are all city property, correct?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:12 pm 
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That is correct Deb if you are talking about setting up on the street, but the ones that set up in parking lots and on private lots are not affected by this, only those that set up on city property which is mainly SARA park. The ones down town are on private property. I am sure they pay some rent to use the spots but it all goes into the owners pocket and won't help pay any of the expenses. This is why I feel they need to charge everyone the same or find a better way to meet expenses.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:13 pm 
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Actually, the ordinance that was approved this week by the City Council is for all transient vendors -- including those who vend on private property. One of the vendors was there from SARA Park, and he said he will not have a problem paying the fee -- in fact, he said that all vendors expect some sort of fee from a City for large events such as the Fall Ride.


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