This idea was discussed somewhat on the old board and raised some good questions. I've since learned that grant money is available through the DNR and that WPS would very likely lend a hand with installation. That means that a tower could become a reality without too much difficulty.<BR>The idea, for those of you who are new here, is to build an elevated platform tower similar to what Rib Mountain and Timm's Hill have, where visitors can take in a panoramic view of the entire park and Lake Mohawksin. What are your thoughts?

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When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor.

This is a great idea. I can see Tim's Hill from my house and every fall we take a family outing to go see the colors...it is so much fun and doesn't cost us a dime! I know at work we were talking about when Bradley Park used to offer camping. I think it would be great if they could open up a few spots for RV camping its close to the Hiawatha trail to bike ride and the money could be used to fix up some of the old buildings. <P>P.S. Happy B-lated birthday Brain..hope you have fun watching Gladiators

As I stated on the old board this is a GREAT idea! As long as the tower is high enough and in the right location. It would draw more visitors to the park AND they would have to go through downtown to get there. This would generate more business activity.

Boogie!!!!!!!!!! this cant be your idea although it is a great one . I just read in the leader that the historical society is fixing up the old log cabin in the park . what a great idea . I to will volenteer my self to anything that will bring the park back to life

OK Brian, where do you propose this tower be located at Bradley Park. Before an observation tower, or maybe in conjuction with,I feel the trails for walking need to be marked and measured loops should be designated. Get the people in shape before climbing that tower. Maybe the city could be persuaded to replace those ugly swing sets with something that would be much more fitting for the setting.<p>[ August 28, 2001: Message edited by: Deb Richardson ]

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Life is too short for drama & petty things!
So, laugh insanely, love truly and forgive quickly!

Scotty - email me for some info!

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When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor.

The fall color is beautiful, lets get out and enjoy it before it all blows away!!!!!!!!!! I like Deb's idea about the walking trails and fixing it up. Also, maybe with some nature trail posting w/history of the area and different trails also being named is my idea for the park. What is new with the tower idea? Brian? anyone know if any meetings are set to discuss any issues here?

oops. It printed twice..took care of it..thanks!<BR> <p>[ October 03, 2001: Message edited by: Fushia ]

Just a thought on the observation tower. The National Guard unit here in Tomahawk is an Engineer unit and would be more than capable of erecting a tower such as this. It has always been the policy of the Guard to be involved in the community and to assist in community projects. If the materials were provided they would provide the man power. In a lot of cases all that was needed was for someone to ask. There is some paperwork that needs to be done but it is not a difficult process. perhaps if there was a means of obtaining the materials this would be a way of getting the tower built and keep the costs to a minimum.

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God and the Soldier we all adore,
In times of trouble and then no more
when war is over and all things righted
God is forgotten, the old soldier Slighted.

Great idea Old Scout! I've already talked informally with a WPS representative about poles and installation and the DNR about grant monies. With help from the National Guard Engineers, I think we're half way there already. We will also need to get permission from the city as well as input and guidance from the city fathers. If everyone who is interested would contact their alderperson and ask them to get on board we just might get this thing done.<BR>Email me if you are interested in helping plan this tower or if you have questions, suggestions, or ideas to offer.

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When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor.

Just a couple of thoughts on the Park. The last couple of years there has been a group doing Music in the Park at the Washington Square Park. Perhaps Bradly park would be a good place for this. (remember the old band stand, Perhaps a new one would be a benifit) If it could be arranged to do this once a week during the summer it would get people aware of the park. <BR>There are a lot of activities during the summer that could be held in the park as well as anywhere else.<BR>One other thought, If the park was closed to Snowmobiles, (I'am going to get in trouble for this one) and a cross country ski trail was maintained it would be a big draw. Some years back they used to have a trail but now if you you want to ski you need to use the snowmobile trails, and that is not too safe. They could even charge a buck or two for a days skiing to help defray the cost. It would also give them and excuse to use the old registration building for what it was ment for.<BR> If a group wanted to make some money they could have food and hot drinks set up in the shelter on weekends. This is an activity that would have a very low impact on the park and would give people a place to go and have fun. The best part is that it is within walking distance of town.

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God and the Soldier we all adore,
In times of trouble and then no more
when war is over and all things righted
God is forgotten, the old soldier Slighted.

I like the idea of keeping the snowmobiles out of Bradley Park and it would be a great idea to get the cross country ski trails back in shape, (some of the old marker signs are still on the trails). By getting the trails in shape it could serve a two fold purpose, the trails would be marked and measured for walkers as well. Refreshments for the skiers would be a great idea, maybe some of the service organizations in town would be willing to take turns or youth groups from the different churches or the high school's student council. As far as I'm concerned that park is not being utilized to it's full potential.

_________________
Life is too short for drama & petty things!
So, laugh insanely, love truly and forgive quickly!

With all of the access that they have on the river and other ways through town I find it hard to believe that the snowmobile trails need to go throught the heart of Bradly park. <BR>Yes that was the idea, of having the park open to traffic and the road open. That way there would be a place to park and access to the trails. It seems a little strange that the only ones that are given access to the park in the winter are the ones that drive in on a snowmobile and the rest of us are left out in the cold so to speak.

_________________
God and the Soldier we all adore,
In times of trouble and then no more
when war is over and all things righted
God is forgotten, the old soldier Slighted.

You are absolutely right Old Scout, there are many other alternative routes that could be accessed by the snowmobile clubs for trails. Bradley Park or any other park for that matter, should not have a trail running through them. I've walked these trails in the winter and I have seen what some snowmobilers leave behind, granted it's the minority that are leaving beer cans and the like behind, however I don't feel that as taxpayers in the city of Tomahawk we should have to be paying for the spring clean up of this junk. I disagree that the city would balk at plowing the park if it were wisely utilized. Could it be some people would not like to see that happen because part of the snowmobile trail runs along the roadway through the park? Correct me if I'm wrong.

_________________
Life is too short for drama & petty things!
So, laugh insanely, love truly and forgive quickly!

I whole-heartidly agree with you Deb. Snowmobiles really shouldn't have a place in a park such as Bradley Park, or any park of the sort. They have an amazing amount of access to trails all throughout Northern Wisconsin, and the avoidance of routes through such parks wouldn't, in my opinion, be that tragic. Snowmobiles, environmentally speaking, aren't the most sound things that ever roamed the forests, and what people bring with them (as far as litter, misuse and disrespect for the land area, though it may be the minority) are sort of an inevitable side effect to any park that is exploited to such use where the user and the user's activity don't necessarily coincide with an appreciation for the land and uses beyond their own. Making it harder for people who should have equal access to these places to enjoy.

Here is my concern with closing the park to snowmobiles. You would require them to drive over more ice in an area that I don't think is that solid anyway. Hasn't one person died on the ice in that area already years back? Also, how many have snowmobiled through the bay near the park. All the ice fishers make some other routes, and even the trail, dangerous. Last year someone plowed the trail so they could drive to their shack and a snowmobiler was injured when they hit the edge where plowed.<P>I don't see why the snowmobilers and skiers can't co-exist in the same park. The snowmobiles are only allowed to use a few specific areas, simply enforce it a little. Skiers would have access to the whole park, just like they do now, with only a simple trail to cross. Also, why pay to plow the whole park when there is a perfectly good parking lot at the entrance? If you are going skiing or walking you might as well start there and enjoy the entrance to the park, etc... Years back they did a walk in the park or something like that. You could walk/ski in from the parking lot and go to the buildings, there were candles along the way if I remember correctly, etc. The packed snow from snowmobiles gave people something easier to walk on too.<P>Finally, I think litter will be a problem no matter who is in the park. It's sad and stupid but someone will do it anyway. Also, you have know way of knowing this was snowmobiles. I don't know about others but I've tried to carry soda on a sled, it either explodes because it gets cold or it sprays everywhere. My guess would be that this is people walking through the park and throwing things as they walk.

I agree totally with Kerry! Also, Deb you can't just "lump" all of the snowmobilers in one group! There are very caring, thoughtful families out there snowmobiling that would "never" drop a bit of garbage snowmobiling or otherwise. We have been on trails and have "NEVER" seen snowmobilers dropping garbage, or garbage on any trails in 25 years! I agree also that the snowmobiles make the trails<BR>packed down and easier to walk. I think they can all get along and have their separate trails, so they don't run over a "walker." We "NEVER" carry our own cans, like Kerry said that would never work, so it is someone else dropping the cans and garbage. I don't know of anyone who carries their own cans? There is no room to "stop" on trails and do this anyway. People only stop if they have to and have a broken down sled. No room for it and Kerry is right about cans would be shaken so bad, you could never drink it until your next trip out! I see many families and of course there will be some others to spoil the image of snowmobiling, just like other things in our world.<P>Old Scout: I have a sign a good friend of mine made for me.<BR>It says: Uff da

Just a coincidence and an opportunity to get my two cent's worth in, I sent this out a few days ago (I have deleted my real name and address as I get enough mail that makes ticking sounds).<P>*******<BR>Dear Administrator Borushko,<P>Re: Off-Road Vehicles and Engines; Docket No. A-2000-01<P>I urge you to strengthen a proposed new regulation addressing air emissions from vehicles such as snowmobiles, all terrain vehicles (ATVs), dirtbikes, inboard boats, and small industrial and airport equipment. The proposed regulation fails to fully protect the health of off-road vehicle and engine users, other recreationalists, and the environment from the pollutants these machines emit.<P>I believe the proposed regulation should do the following three things:<P>1) Set emission caps on individual engines, rather than setting a cap on the aggregate of engine emissions. By setting caps on individual engines, vehicle and engine manufacturers will have to quickly phase out the archaic two-stroke engine in favor of the much cleaner and efficient four-stroke engine. <P>2) Establish a nation-wide labeling vehicle and engine program, similar to the state of California's. Labeling engines based on pollution emissions will encourage consumers to purchase engines that emit less pollution. Such buying practices signal engine manufacturers to build less polluting products.<P>3) Address noise pollution. Noise pollution has been determined to be harmful to humans, wildlife and the environment.<P>While I commend the EPA for focusing attention on this important health issue, the final rule must effectively phase out the two-stroke engine in all vehicles. The two-stroke engine is dirty, outdated, inefficient and emits pollution that harms ORV users, other recreationalists, and the environment.<P>Please consider this my official public comment. Thank You.

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"Know ye not why We created you all from the same dust? That no one should exalt himself over the other." -Baha'u'llah

What Ben Angelic says in his post is exactly what I was trying to say in mine without trying to get all the snowmobile enthusiasts all riled up, but now that it's out, I must say that I totally agree. Snowmobiles are about as complimentary to nature as jet skis are to water.

First, I am not anti-snowmobiles.I realize that it helps to boost our economy. Secondly, Fushia reread my post, I was not "lumping" together snowmobilers, I stated that those leaving behind the mess are a minority.I realize that most snowmobilers are families and don't create problems. Thirdly, the cans I ran across were from snowmobilers because there were no foot tracks in or out around the mess, just snowmobile tracks. Bradley Park is a pristine piece of land and should remain that way, polluting it with the smell from snowmobiles or ATVs for that matter, is just not right in my estimation. For the record we own an ATV and have found many places that accept ATVs and places that don't and we agree keep the quiet quiet. There is plenty of other public land around the area for snowmobiles and ATVs. Also, if ice conditons are such that safety is an issue then the trails should be closed.

_________________
Life is too short for drama & petty things!
So, laugh insanely, love truly and forgive quickly!

Snowmobiles have been running on the river for as many years as I can remember(and that is quite a few). I was one at one time. As long as they stay on the marked trails there is little danger of thin ice, as it is monitored and marked by the snowmobile clubs. I find it strange that with the hundreds of miles of snowmobile trails that they NEED to use the trails in the park. I can see a crossing from Frenchtown to the north but not through the main part of the park. I agree that snowmobileing is important to the winter economy, but there are others who enjoy the outdoors that are deserving of a place to participate in their sport also. <BR>It would not be a big deal for the city to run a plow through the park and open the parking lots to make the park accessable, and a I said earlier charge a small fee for using the trails to help defray expenses. A buck a day or say, $20.00 for a season pass would not be unreasonable. Maintaining a ski trail is not a big ticket item and it would also draw people into town which would benifit the community.

_________________
God and the Soldier we all adore,
In times of trouble and then no more
when war is over and all things righted
God is forgotten, the old soldier Slighted.

Couple more things to add in response. Snowmobiles can be much more quiet. Many of the truely loud sleds are altered to make faster, more powerful, and louder, just like many cars.<P>Second,there are new sleds on the way that are 4-stroke so they are much more quiet and efficient.<P>Not to be mean Deb but if someone walks down a snowmobile trail and then a snowmobile drives over it a few times can you still see the tracks? I've walked those trails before and you would have a hard time telling.<P>Finally, define what you consider a park. Do you think Yellowstone should be banned? How are you going to access much of the park? What about National Forests? We have property that can't be accessed in the winter without a snowmobile. What animals are we harming and how? I've come close to hitting a deer or two but that happens with a car too and it isn't something you want to happen on a snowmobile.