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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:19 pm
by Tomahawk Leader
Publisher Larry Tobin’s 11/22/05 column:

I normally don't do much with National Rifle Association. material because I don't agree with everything they promote, but I received a copy of a letter last week that was sent out by NRA Executive Director Chris W. Cox. I was surprised by the information contained in the letter and I'm going to reprint some of it here because I think it's vitally important.

"No phone. No power. No 911. No police. No way to get help.

You're totally cut off from the rest of the world. Armed, predatory gangs are roaming the streets and committing violent felonies at will. And with nothing to rely on except yourself, you have no choice but to stand at the ready, day and night, to defend your family, keep looters out of your home, or even prevent a murder or rape.

More than a week later, when police and National Guard troops finally arrive, you feel relief...until they make it clear that they've come to confiscate your guns under sweeping 'emergency powers' laws.

As hard to believe as it sounds, the exactly what law-abiding citizens of New Orleans faced - just days after Hurricane Katrina struck.

Two weeks into the disaster, high-ranking, politically-appointed officials set out to turn nature's assault into a government assault on our rights - and destroy the last remaining thing that Katrina couldn't touch - the RIGHT guaranteed by our Second Amendment to keep and bear firearms for self defense.

The signal for city-wide gun confiscation came from New Orleans Superintendent of Police Edwin Compass, who declared, 'No one will be able to be armed. Guns will be taken. Only law enforcement will be allowed to have guns.' In a statement to the Associated Press, Deputy Police Chief Warren Riley underscored this profound betrayal by stating, 'We are going to take all the weapons.'

And with these announcements, law enforcement officials began a massive house-to-house search - confiscating lawfully owned firearms that, in the days and hours before, had been used to prevent countless (crimes).

Just that quickly every notion of justice, freedom, and common sense...was turned completely inside out....

In a place where 25 percent of the police force inexplicably vanished from their jobs - where helpless people were ordered into the Superdome by the mayor ... where hospitals were looted for drugs - where gunfire erupted every night on the streets - where government officials played the blame game for days around an expanding circle of mayhem and death - the police were dispatched into the homes of law-abiding citizens with orders to disarm them, by force if necessary.

Fox News caught one of these violent episodes ... on tape when police entered the residence of an elderly woman, Patricia Konie, and demanded that she evacuate her home. Konie pointed out that her street was dry, she had plenty of food and water and, if looters came, she had a gun.

But when she showed her revolver, held in her palm with the cylinder open, no finger on the trigger, the police mercilessly body-slammed her into a wall, sending dishes flying; then confiscated her firearm and dragged her from her house.

No one will ever know how many violent crimes were prevented by law-abiding citizens with lawfully owned firearms when New Orleans erupted in chaos and anarchy. No one will ever know how many violent crimes were committed after the law-abiding citizens were forcibly disarmed in the city-wide gun sweep....

Every gun ban lobbyist who ever claimed that we could rely on the police and the government to protect us was proven dead wrong. The politicians who said 'trust the government to provide for your safety,' were nowhere to be found....

We cannot allow this anti-freedom power gram to stand as a national blueprint for gun sweeps in hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, terrorist attacks, epidemics that could threaten the lives of millions, or any other emergencies that...(we) might face in the future...The emergency plans that are in place right now for Los Angeles and San Francisco predict that in the event of the Big One - a huge earthquake - up to 300 buildings will be leveled. Authorities are calmly planning that power, water, phone and police services will be totally out for at least seven days....

If you ever find yourself trapped by a major catastrophe - a natural disaster, a riot, or a terrorist attack - the last thing you want to hear is a knock at your door from armed government officials demanding that you give up your guns."

Some scary thoughts that we can be thankful for that haven't happened everywhere in this country - yet!

Re: Ups-N-Downs

Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:47 pm
by Catfish
What could be worse than having to hand over your guns after a knock on your door? Answer: Handing them over to a Russian or a China-man. Back when the Y2K scare was prevalent, Clinton said if the next morning proved to be as chaotic as was imagined, he would have declared 'Marshall Law". During 'marshall law' all guns must be collected from the citizenry. At that time an informal survey was conducted, inquiring of our "National Guard" whether or not they would be comfortable going door to door collecting guns. An overwhelming majority said in no uncertain terms they would not be going to their father's house, their brothers, cousins, neighbors, etc.. If that were the case, Clinton would have had to call on the "Nato Peacekeepers" for the collecting. Guess who the Nato Peacekeepers are. 200,000 Russians and Chinese.(World Police) Speaking for myself and every other rural cowboy up here, they can have my gun when they pry my cold dead hand from it.

Re: Ups-N-Downs

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:00 pm
by mystic
Originally posted by Tomahawk Leader:
Publisher Larry Tobin’s 11/22/05 column:

"Armed, predatory gangs..."
And the reason they are armed is that they just stole all the guns from an NRA member's house. Or - pryed them from someone's "cold dead hand."

NRA solution: Provide more guns.

Re: Ups-N-Downs

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:44 pm
by Old Scout
Quick Refresher Course

For those who forget what freedom means !

a. An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.
b. A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.
c. Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface.
d. Gun control is not about guns; it's about control.
e. If guns are outlawed, can we use swords?
f. If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words.
g. Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.
h. If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.
i. Those who trade liberty for security have neither.
j. The United States Constitution (c) 1791. All Rights Reserved.
k. What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand.
l. The Second Amendment is in place in case they ignore the others.
m. 64,999,987 firearm owners killed no one yesterday.
n. Guns only have two enemies: Rust and Politicians.
o. Know guns,Know peace and safety. No guns,no peace nor safety.
p. You don't shoot to kill; You shoot to stay alive.
q. 911 - government sponsored Dial a Prayer.
r. Assault is a behavior, not a device.
s. Criminals love gun control - it makes their jobs safer.
t. If Guns cause Crime, then Matches cause Arson.
u. Only a government that is afraid of it's citizens tries to control them.
v. You only have the rights you are willing to fight for.
w. Enforce the "gun control laws" in place, don't make more.
x. When you remove the people's right to bear arms, you create slaves.
y. The American Revolution would never have happened with Gun Control.
z. "....a government by the people, for the people....."

Re: Ups-N-Downs

Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:48 pm
by sagan
This reminds me of a friend of mine that used to be and still is a NRA member. He used to brag about the guns he had and he would in what could only be described as fantasizing describe how he would ward off criminal types and protect his "freedoms." His promotion of his gun collection in "preserving societies freedoms" did not go unnoticed. One day he told me about filing a police report. Someone broke into his house and stole 10 of his guns. None of these guns helped him in prevention of the crime and in fact were probably the reason for it.

The Senator Dave Zien types that share in this fantasy of killing someone breaking into their house or assaulting them may, however, sleep well tonight. My friend has now replaced most of his guns. Or maybe they shouldn't sleep well. None of the ten guns stolen were recovered.

Re: Ups-N-Downs

Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:54 pm
by sagan
And "American Rifleman" histrionics aside, Freedom means living by universalizable rules that you yourself have dictated.

Re: Ups-N-Downs

Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:42 am
by Catfish
The Senator Dave Zien types DON'T share in a 'fantasy' of killing someone breaking into their house or assaulting them. They just want to, and have the guts to, protect themseves and their familys.
Remember just one of the past horror stories for example: Some disgruntled pyschopath flips out and goes into a McDonald's in San Obisto, Ca. with a rifle and starts spraying the patrons and employees with bullets killing 17 people. Meanwhile 'John Doe Private Citizen' and his wife and two kids are standing there. Now if I were the John Doe citizen holding a concealed weapon, you can bet that, the scoundral would be lying down sure and swift, in his own puddle, after maybe three people were shot, thus saving 14 other innocents in the process. This scoundral goes in there shooting, knowing full well that nobody is armed to shoot back. If he were to think that out of the group of 17, half may be armed, I don't think he would think the odds of him being sucessful were good enough to start the melee in the first place. If half of who you encountered may be armed, I would think scoundrals would start behaving a little differently in public.

Re: Ups-N-Downs

Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:37 am
by sagan
And for every scoundrel they blast to bits, how many stories like this accrue?

Tue, Nov 29, 2005

Gun in girl's death had been locked
Child's mother had taken precautions, authorities say; findings reveal 'tragic accident'

By Jessica Bock
Wausau Daily Herald
TOMAHAWK - Micayla Ellis' mother took the suggested precautions with a gun in her home - she locked it up, hid the key and put the ammunition in different locations - but it still wasn't enough to stave off her children's curiosity.

While off from classes at Tomahawk Elementary School last Wednesday before Thanksgiving, Micayla ended up with a small-caliber handgun. It accidentally went off, and she entered Saint Joseph's Hospital in Mashfield in critical condition from a single gunshot wound to the head. The young girl died the next day.

Family and friends buried Micayla on Monday, and authorities used preliminary findings from an autopsy to determine that her death was accidental. Her older brother was in the same room when the gun went off.

"It was just a tragic accident," Lincoln County Sheriff Tom Koth said Monday. "The kids had some time on their hands. With the curiosity they had, they were able to locate all of the components."
In 2002, nearly 800 children ages 14 and younger were treated in hospital emergency rooms for accidental gun-related injuries, according to Safe Kids Worldwide, a network of organizations that distributes gun locks to prevent accidental childhood injury. In 2001, 72 children died from those injuries.Ê
The sheriff's departments in Marathon and Lincoln counties, as well as the Tomahawk Police Department, have free gun locks available to parents.
Nearly two-thirds of parents who own firearms and have school-age children believe they keep their firearms safely away from their children. But one study found that when a gun was in the home, 75 percent to 80 percent of first- and second-graders knew where it was kept.
Few children under age 8 can distinguish between real and toy guns. Children as young as 3 are strong enough to pull the trigger of many handguns, Safe Kids Worldwide says.

The American Academy of Pediatrics has determined that the most effective way to prevent gun-related deaths and injuries to children and adolescents is to remove guns from their homes and communities.

Re: Ups-N-Downs

Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:35 am
by Catfish
While the Ellis girl is a very sad tradgedy and my heart truly goes out to her family members,Broca, you have to be kidding. If that would happen to one of mine I would be totally devistated, and for that reason I want to be able to protect my loved ones. Now just because the poor girl was involved in a fatal accident, you are of the mind that NO-ONE should be able to protect their families. I guess I must be a Senator Dave Zien type because, living in the country with no neighbors insight, I want to have a gun out there to protect my family. It is not to go out hunting scoundrals. Do you remember the Helen Kunst murders in the country a few years back. I rest my case. If some strangers thinks they are going to shove their way into My home at 3 or 4 in the morning, I don't think so. A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone. Old Scout's post eloquently hits the nail on the head. "If guns cause crimes, pencils cause mispelled words." Think about it, who's pushing the pencil?

Re: Ups-N-Downs

Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:48 am
by Catfish
And, The "American Academy of Pediatrics" has determined that the most effective way to prevent gun-related deaths and injuries to children and adolescents is to 'remove guns from their homes and communities.'
Who are they, with that absurd statement? I would think the "American Academy of Pediatrics" should tell us if our kid has got a cold or the flu. Who are they to think they should make statements on political issues such as this. I am sure they would recommend our children not run with a pencil in their mouth. And if they fall and puncture their roof palate, is it the pencils fault,or is it the fault of the parents for having that sharpened pencil in the house in the first place?

Re: Ups-N-Downs

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:55 pm
by sagan
The Kunze family owned guns for what good it did them; so did Chris Jacobs.

As a hunter for nearly fifty years and a one time NRA member I am well aware of and sick of their using the hunters in their antics as a front marketing group for the handgun industry in particular and their histrionics come election time. You can count on their call: "They're going to take your guns! They're going to take your guns! Please send a donation at this urgent time of crisis!"

Suppose you actually prevented a home crime with your guns in your house but the subsequent outcomes (guns have a long, long lifespan)costs two lives, or perhaps only one in the following 50 years. Is your disregard for the impact on others warranted by your perceived "right"?

Re: Ups-N-Downs

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:11 pm
by Catfish
So are you saying that because you don't know what the outcome of your gun will yield 50 years from now, you wouldn't want to protect your family now? Maybe the Kunze family had guns, but did they answer the door with one. If I, living in the country with no neighbors insight of my house, had a knock at the door in the middle of the night or even after midnight I'd be answering the door with a gun in my hand. If they didn't show obvious signs of trauma like blood or something I sure wouldn't let them in to use the phone. I'd tell them to wait on the porch and I'd make the call. Then lock the door before going to the phone. If they forced the door after that they would get about one step thru it before getting shot. Tough Love? Welcome to 2005, that's just the way it is now. If you don't think so you're deaf, dumb and blind.

Re: Ups-N-Downs

Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:01 pm
by Old Scout
These are some interesting statistics.

This should send up some red flags!!! There's something to be said about why our founding fathers included "the right to bear arms" in the constitution!!! The Historical results of Gun Control whether you agree or not, is an interesting lesson in history.

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about
20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million 'educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.

It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.

The first year results are now in.

Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent. Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent. Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent!). In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up
300 percent.
(Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!)

While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.

There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in "successfully ridding Australian society of guns." The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it. You won't see this data on the American evening news or hear our president, governors or other politicians disseminating this information. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.

Take note my fellow Americans...before it's too late! The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.

With guns, we are citizens. Without them, we are subjects.

Re: Ups-N-Downs

Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:29 pm
by Catfish
I remember a story from a few years back about a guy whose apartment had been broken into for a robbery through the transom window above his entrance door in the hall. This had repeatedly happened a second and third time. The cops had no leads and the investigation went nowhere. The guy decided to wire an electric charge across the opening so the next one that climbed above his door to drop in through that window would get the shock of his life. Sure enough, along comes the intruder again and gets electricuted. He sues and wins and the guy who lived there went to jail. "Who you gonna call? Ghost Busters!!"