6 million people diverting resources from the front line troops that will no doubt increase the number that will die so they can practice freedom at the expense of others with out even the decency of giving moral support.

It took America 25 years to admit it but the protestors in the Vietnam conflict were essentially correct. At that time it took several years of war to get protests of this magnitude. This time it looks like they are ahead of the game and better organized. I hope there is no Kent State II. Thirty three years this coming May. Long time even for a god, but reflecting on this bit of history might be good. One thing Bush II has accomplished is much division in the country and no sense of unity on any issue. People cannot even decide on whether to buy duct tape or not.

During the Vietnam conflict people claimed generals and gold-digging investors made huge profits on sandbags. I think this duct tape thing bears investigating.

"And some of that tax money subsidizes drunken men over thirty (but under seventy) with free apartments and food stamps that they are allowed to exchange for liquor."

Be careful with claims like this, all the men from Wisconsin might pack up and move to Germany. Though I don't understand why they would cut off the men over 70.

_________________
"Know ye not why We created you all from the same dust? That no one should exalt himself over the other." -Baha'u'llah

Oh, and beware of war stories, except for the one about Rumsfield shaking hands with Saddam as it is true.
http://www.geocities.com/theawakeningnews/Conspiracy-Rejecting_Bushs_War.html

_________________
"Know ye not why We created you all from the same dust? That no one should exalt himself over the other." -Baha'u'llah

A man who served 5 years of active duty was NOT a draft dodger by anyone's definition.

BTW, I never got my jaw broken, perhaps because I don't go to bars, but I was spit upon and jeered while in military uniform during those years.

Nell

_________________
Nell

More women die of lung cancer than breast cancer. If you smoke, quit. If you don't, don't start.

Friends never lets friends drive drunk.

>>It took America 25 years to admit it but the protestors in the Vietnam conflict were essentially correct.<<

This is bs…. Protesters burnt banks, college campuses, government buildings, spit on returning vets as they got off airplanes or walked down the streets, stoned them and in many other ways aided the enemy. They are directly responsible for some of the darkest days in American history.

A good part of the reason we were not successful in Viet Nam goes to the credit of the protesters as weak leadership tried to appease unreasonable protesters. A great amount of resources were used up dealing with rioters and other unruly and disgraceful behavior.

The ironic thing is all those ignorant people protesting were supporting a government that if you did the same thing over there, they would have blow their sorry *** away in a heart beat, instead their choice was to help them try to wipe out America because it threatens them with freedom.

It’s not Bush that is causing a division, it’s people that just don’t see the forest for the trees….. Take your protest to Saddam's Iraq, you’ll get what you deserve from him.

Let me remind you again, you have the right to protest because so many brave Americans have given up their right to live…and you choose to desecrate their sacrifice as well as their memory.

<small>[ February 19, 2003, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: JFlosum ]</small>

The "Domino Theory" had no necessary validity. The war was imperialistic. Vietnam was not a military threat to the U.S.

As I said, the protestors were essentially correct.

You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

_________________
"Know ye not why We created you all from the same dust? That no one should exalt himself over the other." -Baha'u'llah

The link you reference above is a free website of the kind that anyone can put up on geociteies. Is that your site Abraham? The very first statement (below) shows it’s ignorance and total disregard for the facts. You living under a rock or something?

>>The War on Terrorism, the very first war of the 21st century could easily be described as the most unsupported war since Vietnam. Not a single soul outside the White House is supporting this war and this is not just in the United States, but all around the world. <<

You living under a rock or something?

Then you try to cast aspersions on my statement above with this?

>>You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.<<

I’m not entitled to my own facts but you are? You are one funny dude!!!!

You wouldn’t recognize a fact if it jumped up and bit you on your nose!

Greetings,

America is going to war. Of this there seems little doubt. Our elected governmnet has exhausted all diplomatic options with Iraq, and now the only thing that will effect change in the region is brute, naked, force. I for one support our troops. I used to proudly wear the green tunic of the United States Army and the values of honor, duty, and country do not go out of style once you take your uniform off for the last time.

It seems to me that the above discussions of Viet Nam have little credence in the current situation. There will be no Kent Sate II. Protests will be held most certaily, and God bless every one of them. To protest is one of the greatest rights that we as free citizens have in this great country. However, I would ask that those who protest look sincerely at what it is they are protesting. If it is war in general, then let me be the first in line to march, as only a soldier knows the true horror that is war. But, to protest strictly that "war is evil" is naive. If the US had only protested during WWII, as many Americans indicated should be our only involvement, I dare say that the holacaust would have been much worse and that Hitler may have gotten his 1000 year Reich. To destroy an evil is a just cause. I think that we can all agree on a fundamental basis that the present regime in Iraq has demonstrated its complete disregrad for anything other then thier own personal agenda, including the use of chemical and bioloigcal weapons upon its own citizens and troops! I think that fits the bill as evil.

The other factor about Vietnam that is not relevant today is that because of the way Vietnam was fought, we have learned how to fight differently. There will be no slow escalation of the war or secret bombings as there were in the past. As we demonstrated in desert storm, we will once again into a hostile situation with overwelming force, do our job and get out. The current commanders of the US Armed Forces remember all too well the lessons of Vietnam, and none are eager to destroy an entire generation of brave Americans by repeating them. This war will be fast, brutal and decisive. Iraq will loose bigtime. Vietnam was entirely a political debacle that the US military will not let happen again. I cringe inside to think of what the American people did to those brave persons called to serve once they returned to the "friendly" shores of the USA. Perhaps that is the lesson that we need to take into this conflict, be you for war or peace. Remember that these folks are there at our bidding and are doing the job that we as citizens of this country have asked them to do. Will some of the sons and daughters of America die in the conflict? Unfortunately yes; and they will be the new heros of this generation. It is true what is said when "The tree of liberty must sometimes be refreshed with the blood of patriots."

To those that would protest our actions, I would reiterate the words of another great American who said to wit, "I may disagree most vehemently with what you have to say, but I will defend your right to say it with my very life." So protest long, loud and clear. I for one cheer when I see a group of our citizens excercising their rights in protest. Should we ever loose this abilty, one paid for in blood by our forefathers, then surely our country will cease to be.

God bless america and those that serve her.

Dean Goulet
(Former) Staff Seargent 1/409th Infantry US Army.

_________________
*** The opinions expressed herein are uniquely MY OWN and should not be construed as an endorsement of any sort by my employers or of any professional associations to which I hold membership. I can dig myself into holes just fine without their help, thank you very much***

CNBC poll: February 14, 2003
Should Iraq be given more time to disarm?
Yes: 50% -- No: 50%

Same poll taken today:
Yes: 31% -- No: 69%

"Those who forget history are bound to repeat it"
Hitler was appeased to a point and look what happened . Then there was the "better Red than dead" advocates during the threat of Communism. Then by the leader of North Viet Nam's own admission, they prolonged the Viet Nam war after about ready to quit, because protesters like Jane Fonda gave them hope that the protesters would convince our Government to quit. Now with Iraq there may be some economic considerations involved, but this is basically a religious war. Muslims whether "moderate" or fanatic beleive if your not Muslim your dead. Turning the other cheek won't get a slap, it will get you a grave.

Another comment from:
Wausau Daily Herald
Sat, Mar 8, 2003

Soldiers fought and died to protect the right to criticize our government

Let me make sure I've got this right.

The Founding Fathers and generations of soldiers fought and died to ensure that all Americans have the right to free speech.

So those who enjoy that right should take advantage of it by keeping their **** dissenting mouths shut.

Huh?
It makes no sense whatsoever, but that's the logic being used by a large group of people in this country who seem to believe that anyone who says anything critical of the government is abusing his or her free speech rights.

In Albany, N.Y., a father and son were arrested Monday while sitting in a food court eating and wearing shirts printed with peace slogans. Mall managers complained the two were "disruptive" to other customers.

When about 150 peace activists demonstrated in protest at the mall Thursday, one was punched in the face my a bystander who shouted, "Remember 9-11!"
Similar feelings have been expressed in recent letters to the editor printed in this newspaper.

"Do not take for granted the freedom that allows you to speak out against the president, country and your own way of life," soldier Tim Seppala, who has family in Rothschild, wrote in the March 4 Wausau Daily Herald. "People have died. My brothers in arms have shed blood for your freedom."
We've also read about it in reaction to a New York college basketball player who has chosen to express her dissatisfaction with the country's current state of affairs by turning her back on the flag while the pre-game national anthem is sung.

"Is this her idea of 'freedom of speech' - the same freedom for which our servicemen and servicewomen put their lives on the line?" a New York resident wrote in the March 5 edition of USA Today.

Yes. That is precisely the freedom for which Americans have fought and died.

They certainly didn't die to ensure a society in which every citizen is compelled to march lockstep behind our leaders and remain silently uncritical.

The guaranteed freedom of speech made the United States a leader among nations in recognizing the basic liberties to which we're all entitled.

But what makes this country great is the exercise of that freedom, and we're seeing that played out as we struggle to find our way in a changing and tumultuous world.

As members of a democracy, we're obligated to be involved in our governance and to make our will known. Democracy is rule of the people, by the people and for the people, not rule by one controlling thought or motive.

And democracy, by its very nature, can get ugly.

We should speak as one to the rest of the world in support of the principles and ideals upon which the country was founded - liberty, freedom and democratic rule.

But jingoism and nationalism aren't among those principles.

Perhaps the best guide to lead us through these difficult times is not an American at all. He was the French philosopher Voltaire, who was imprisoned in 1717 for writing critically about his government:
"I disapprove of what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it."
Peter J. Wasson is the Wausau Daily Herald Opinion page editor.

_________________
If all the atheists left the United States it would lose 93% of the National Academy of Sciences but less than 1% of the prison population.

Amen!
And I stand corrected on the quote. Voltaire of all people... Just goes to show that the USA may be a great country, but we do not hold the monopoly of the greatest thinkers of the world. Isn't it wierd that some of the greatest patriots of this country are not originally from the USA?? Maybe it takes the experience of being rasied in a country not a great as ours to see the comaprison more clearly. Hmm.. Just randonm thoughs, But, perhaps something to think about more.

I am not for war as our only solution to a problem. But when the gloves have to come off, we will wage war with the utmost in ferocity, overwhelm those who oppose us, and then return to our peaceful lives.

<small>[ March 09, 2003, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: MedicDVG ]</small>

_________________
*** The opinions expressed herein are uniquely MY OWN and should not be construed as an endorsement of any sort by my employers or of any professional associations to which I hold membership. I can dig myself into holes just fine without their help, thank you very much***

If you missed the last War Protest, you have got another chance.
**************************

Wed, Mar 12, 2003

Protesters plan 400 block march

By David Paulsen
Wausau Daily Herald
dpaulsen@wdhprint.com

As President Bush marches the country toward war with Iraq, protesters plan to march Saturday in Wausau and around the country in opposition.

Peace advocates will circle the square in downtown Wausau from 11 a.m. to 3 p.m. Organizers say it is one of more than 150 marches that will coincide with the main anti-war event to be held in Washington.

Protesters intend to demonstrate "a presence against war," said Dave Kast, a college mathematics instructor from Wausau. The events were coordinated on a moment's notice in reaction to a U.N. resolution drafted by the British that sets a March 17 deadline for the disarmament of Iraq.

"As the Bush administration threatens to wage a unilateral war of aggression, we must do all we can to make this movement the single biggest obstacle to war," the anti-war group International A.N.S.W.E.R. said on its Web site. The group, a coordinator of the Saturday marches, also plans to stage "emergency protests" on the day a war starts with Iraq.

White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said Tuesday that the administration was considering a request in the United Nations to push back the March 17 deadline for war, but not by much.

Gabe Ticho, 42, of Wausau said local and national organizers are making a final push for peace in the face of the mounting drive toward war.

"We're hoping to make our voices heard, that we continue to oppose any military action in Iraq. And we're hopeful that a peaceful resolution to the conflict can be reached," Ticho said. He is a Wausau physician who has participated in regular Friday afternoon protests in front of the Marathon County Courthouse.

Wausau also was the site of a Feb. 15 rally in front of the Grand Theater that drew more than 1,000 peace advocates as part of a worldwide day of protest. Rallies worldwide, including in New York, London and Berlin, drew millions of protesters.

The Wausau rally was the main demonstration in Wisconsin that day, and it featured speakers and music, as well as a sizable group of war supporters opposing the rally.

Kast, who helped organize the Feb. 15 rally, said there will be no speeches at the Saturday march. Protesters simply will walk around the square on the sidewalk carrying signs.

- The Associated Press contributed to this report.

_________________
"Know ye not why We created you all from the same dust? That no one should exalt himself over the other." -Baha'u'llah

This was an e-mail I received today. I am posting this for your enjoyment. Sorry about the CAPS.

"DENNIS MILLER WAS INTERVIEWED ON DONAHUE. HE WAS SO INTELLIGENT AND SO INFORMED ABOUT OUR POLITICAL SITUATION ABROAD. HE TOTALLY MADE THE LIBERAL DONAHUE LOOK FOOLISH TO SAY THE LEAST.

TRYING TO HELP - ARTICLE IN WICHITA FALLS PAPER
BY DENNIS MILLER

ALL THE RHETORIC ON WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD GO TO WAR AGAINST IRAQ HAS GOT MY INSANE LITTLE BRAIN SPINNING LIKE A ROULETTE WHEEL. I ENJOY READING OPINIONS FROM BOTH SIDES BUT I HAVE DETECTED A HINT OF CONFUSION FROM SOME OF YOU.

AS I WAS READING THE PAPER RECENTLY, I WAS REMINDED OF THE BEST ADVICE SOMEONE EVER GAVE ME. HE TOLD ME ABOUT THE KISS METHOD ("KEEP IT
SIMPLE, STUPID!) SO, WITH THIS AS A THEME, I'D LIKE TO APPLY THIS THEORY FOR THOSE WHO DON'T QUITE GET IT. MY HOPE IS THAT WE CAN SIMPLIFY THINGS A BIT AND RECOGNIZE A FEW IMPORTANT FACTS.

HERE ARE 10 THINGS TO CONSIDER WHEN VOICING AN OPINION ON THIS IMPORTANT ISSUE:

1) OUT OF PRESIDENT BUSH AND SADDAM HUSSEIN ... HUSSEIN IS THE BAD GUY.

2) IF YOU HAVE FAITH IN THE UNITED NATIONS TO DO THE RIGHT THING KEEP THIS IN MIND, THEY HAVE LIBYA HEADING THE COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RIGHTS
AND IRAQ HEADING THE GLOBAL DISARMAMENT COMMITTEE. DO YOUR OWN MATH HERE

3) IF YOU USE GOOGLE SEARCH AND TYPE IN "FRENCH MILITARY VICTORIES," YOUR REPLY WILL BE "DID YOU MEAN FRENCH MILITARY DEFEATS?"

4) IF YOUR ONLY ANTI-WAR SLOGAN IS "NO WAR FOR OIL," SUE YOUR SCHOOL DISTRICT FOR ALLOWING YOU TO SLIP THROUGH THE CRACKS AND ROBBING YOU OF THE EDUCATION YOU DESERVE.

5) SADDAM AND BIN LADEN WILL NOT SEEK UNITED NATIONS APPROVAL BEFORE THEY TRY TO KILL US.

6) DESPITE COMMON BELIEF, MARTIN SHEEN IS NOT THE PRESIDENT. HE PLAYS ONE ON T.V.

7) EVEN IF YOU ARE ANTI-WAR, YOU ARE STILL AN "INFIDEL!" AND BIN LADEN WANTS YOU DEAD, TOO

IF YOU BELIEVE IN A "VAST RIGHT-WING CONSPIRACY" BUT NOT IN THE DANGER THAT HUSSEIN POSES, QUIT HANGING OUT WITH THE DELL COMPUTER
DUDE

9) WE ARE NOT TRYING TO LIBERATE THEM.

10) WHETHER YOU ARE FOR MILITARY ACTION OR AGAINST IT, OUR YOUNG MEN
AND WOMEN OVERSEAS ARE FIGHTING FOR US TO DEFEND OUR RIGHT TO SPEAK OUT. WE ALL NEED TO SUPPORT THEM WITHOUT RESERVATION.

I HOPE THIS HELPS."

mohawksin !!!

The best post on the subject I have read!! Good for you!! K.I.S.S. baby! K.I.S.S.!!! !!

I thought I was the only one that missed the U.N. vote on bin Laden launching the 9/11 attakcs!!

HERE ARE 10 THINGS TO CONSIDER WHEN VOICING AN OPINION ON THIS IMPORTANT ISSUE:

1) OUT OF PRESIDENT BUSH AND SADDAM HUSSEIN ... HUSSEIN IS THE BAD GUY. Answer: There are lots of bad guys in the world. The country formerly known as Burma is higher up on the human rights violations that Iraq. For Iraq see: http://web.amnesty.org/web/web.nsf/pages/iraq_summary

2) IF YOU HAVE FAITH IN THE UNITED NATIONS TO DO THE RIGHT THING KEEP THIS IN MIND, THEY HAVE LIBYA HEADING THE COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RIGHTS
AND IRAQ HEADING THE GLOBAL DISARMAMENT COMMITTEE. DO YOUR OWN MATH HERE. A. Maybe if the U.S. paid their dues, they would get on a committee.

3) IF YOU USE GOOGLE SEARCH AND TYPE IN "FRENCH MILITARY VICTORIES," YOUR REPLY WILL BE "DID YOU MEAN FRENCH MILITARY DEFEATS?" A. An the relevance of this?

4) IF YOUR ONLY ANTI-WAR SLOGAN IS "NO WAR FOR OIL," SUE YOUR SCHOOL DISTRICT FOR ALLOWING YOU TO SLIP THROUGH THE CRACKS AND ROBBING YOU OF THE EDUCATION YOU DESERVE. A. The relevance of this?

5) SADDAM AND BIN LADEN WILL NOT SEEK UNITED NATIONS APPROVAL BEFORE THEY TRY TO KILL US. A. Bush has shown no connectin between the two. Texas will not seek U.N. approval before it kills again either.

6) DESPITE COMMON BELIEF, MARTIN SHEEN IS NOT THE PRESIDENT. HE PLAYS ONE ON T.V. A. If you know this, you are watching too much TV (Dan Quayle syndrome).

7) EVEN IF YOU ARE ANTI-WAR, YOU ARE STILL AN "INFIDEL!" AND BIN LADEN WANTS YOU DEAD, TOO. A. Even if you don't believe in electricity, lighting will not descriminate, your point?

IF YOU BELIEVE IN A "VAST RIGHT-WING CONSPIRACY" BUT NOT IN THE DANGER THAT HUSSEIN POSES, QUIT HANGING OUT WITH THE DELL COMPUTER
DUDE. You need to explain this one.

9) WE ARE NOT TRYING TO LIBERATE THEM. A. Sounds contrary to Bush's rhetoric. So we are trying to give them a gangland style of government like we just did for Afganistan?

10) WHETHER YOU ARE FOR MILITARY ACTION OR AGAINST IT, OUR YOUNG MEN
AND WOMEN OVERSEAS ARE FIGHTING FOR US TO DEFEND OUR RIGHT TO SPEAK OUT. WE ALL NEED TO SUPPORT THEM WITHOUT RESERVATION. A. This is a statement of opinion. They have ever right to conscientiously object. Support the troops, oppose the war.

And more:
Iraq provides no military threat to the U.S.

Bush has yet to explain the long running "we're running out of time garble."

So what does he really mean by "weapons of mass destruction?"

Containment at 600 million/year versus Bush's war at 400 Billion up front and 60 BILLION/year for the next ten years.

I HOPE THIS HELPS."

_________________
If all the atheists left the United States it would lose 93% of the National Academy of Sciences but less than 1% of the prison population.

Dagger,

If you need all this explained to you, you wouldn't understand anyway !

_________________
God and the Soldier we all adore,
In times of trouble and then no more
when war is over and all things righted
God is forgotten, the old soldier Slighted.

"When the war begins, if the war begins, I support the troops and I support the United States of America winning as rapidly as possible. When the troops are in the field and fighting--if they're in the field and fighting--remembering what it's like to be those troops--I think they need a unified America that is prepared to win." --Sen. John Kerry, the Democratic presidential frontrunner, March 13, 2003

Thanks to all that made the War Protest in Wausau today. It was a great day for it with the sun shining, snow melting and good company from all around north central Wisconsin. No sign of war promoters today except for a few people driving by on Scott street shouting obscenities and making obscene gestures from their Suburban Assault Vehicles.

_________________
"Know ye not why We created you all from the same dust? That no one should exalt himself over the other." -Baha'u'llah