Hmmmm.
Catfish as dentist like Steve Martin in Little Shop or the scary dude drilling on Pacino/hoffman/whoever in Marathon Man.

Very Scary!!!

Tilt?

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What if there were no hypothetical questions?

I think the teachers need to be more honest with their students.

What they should be saying to them.

I want your parents to pay more in taxes, so you and your family can go without more because I deserve it.

Collective bargaining is not a right.

At 57 taxpayers dollars for every $1.00 they contribute to their pension should never be on the table again. Taxpayers paying 100% for their retirement is over the top plus able to retire at 55. With the bill we would still pay 94%.

We pay 95% of their health care for life. With the bill, it still is a steal, we would pay 87%.

Both of these issues do not need any collective bargaining anymore!!

The unions are in an uproar because all the public sector employees with this budget bill can now opt out of paying their 600--1100 dues yearly.

It's all about money, the public sector doesn't want to stop the gravey train and either does the union.

The private sector doesn't have anymore to give.

I hear they don't want to lose collective bargaining over these issues cause they believe everyone will be rolling in the dough again, they want that option open. Sorry, I believe, not even in a hundred years should we contribute anymore then what we already do. If the teachers really looked at the shape of our state and country, hopefully we will survive the financial mess that we are faced with.

Have a look at what Wisconsin teachers and the administators recieve yearly in salaries and benefits. If we all could be so fortunate.

http://usataxpayer.org/htm/witeachers.asp?ncid=79132

That is not true that all teachers are able to retire at 55. The same with state workers. Their pension is designed to do so only if they have achieved the commonly called Rule of 85, years of service plus age equaling 85. Spending 30 plus years in a class room more than deserves retirement. (Just my humble opinion.)

_________________
Life is too short for drama & petty things!
So, laugh insanely, love truly and forgive quickly!

Just to put some things in perspective...

So much for not raising taxes...
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_e25ede58-b707-5876-9735-ecf0aa178e6d.html

Oh, and private employee's pensions are a higher percentage of their benefit packages than public employees. And, two out of every three public employees aren't union members. The highest percentage of unionized public employees is found in local government, where police offices and firefighters work. Now, remind me, which unions are exempt in Walker's proposal???
http://www.jsonline.com/news/usandworld/117501938.html

Your talking about the tax credit which gives thousands of dollars in refunds to people who never even paid into the system.

The choices are: Taxpayers pay more or non-taxpayers get less of our money.

Wisconsin is a state that if the job your appling for is union, you HAVE TO JOIN and PAY DUES. This bill will allow public workers to opt out of that.

As for private pension packages, if a union is involved, their retirement package is decent. Look at Harley's pension plan, for every 1.00 they contribute, the employer contributes 5.00. Most employers have a 50/50 plan, meaning they match what you put toward your pension.

Again police and firefighters are also forced to join the union which has given them sweet deals on the taxpayers dime. One crisis at a time.

It's the unions that represent state workers who are causing the problem, they know they will lose ALOT OF MONEY from public employee's. They are goating the people to scream and chant, they brought in thousands of protesters(out-of-state) to keep the fire going in Madison. How can public workers even complain, they have it very good compared to the private sector who PAYS THEM.

The entitlement mentality seems to have infected our public workers. It's time to innoculate them all.

Who are these non-taxpayers you speak of KrystalKlear?

Inoculate the public workers for what? Smallpox?

_________________
Life is too short for drama & petty things!
So, laugh insanely, love truly and forgive quickly!

Here's good article on the issues we face in Wisconsin.

snips from the article
It allows dedicated teachers to devote themselves year in and year out to students even as it locks in those that no longer put their full energy into the job, "making it hard to bring in new young energetic teachers,"

----Meaning teachers who are lazy can't be eliminated, just paid because their contract says so.

No one disputes that Wisconsin's pension system is one of the most stable and best-funded among the 50 states. By its own reckoning, the Wisconsin Retirement System is the ninth-largest public pension fund in the U.S. and the 30th-largest public or private pension fund in the world.

Participants include Wisconsin's state agencies and all local city and county governments apart from the City of Milwaukee and Milwaukee County. The system covers all school districts, including those in Milwaukee.

The proposed changes, said Jacobsen at Wells Fargo, "are not about reneging on past promises, but on not making more promises."

http://www.jsonline.com/business/117472998.html

Earned Income Credit Plan --it pays to be a familyman with low wages.
You are aware that people(not singles) who have low wages pretty much don't pay income tax or very small amounts? You know they get back thousands of dollars they never put into the system. You do know, be it state or federal, it still comes from the people who pay taxes. Go talk to H&R block or a CPA, they can explain how it works.

The entitlement mentality needs a shot of being realistic!! Right now the focus is on public workers who don't want to give up the priviledge to bargain for more of what we can't give.

Krystalklear
Isn’t it funny that all these years the teachers told us they made hardly any money?
And we believed them.
You know because they did it for the kids.
And by the way Kerry the Madison State journal is nothing more than a liberal rag.
Kind of like the Moscow Times.
Propaganda.
Not much different than the other bird cage liner in Milwaukee.
Maybe worst??

It pays to be a family man with low income. Seriously? If these same people own a home they pay property taxes, if they make a purchase in the grocery story they pay sales tax, tax on the fuel put in their car. They pay what they can and being allowed a tax credit doesn't make them non-contributors. What a demeaning thing to say about the hard working less fortunate in our country. Down sizing and lay-offs have put many of these people in that position. God save you KrystalKlear if you are ever in that position.

_________________
Life is too short for drama & petty things!
So, laugh insanely, love truly and forgive quickly!

To KrystalKlear - This is simply not true. I'd like to know where you get this information.

As a teacher in a rural school district, upon retirement I will receive a small stipend to go towards my health insurance. I know it's less than $300/month. (I'm not quite at retirement age, so I don't have the hard figures.) This is true whether you are married or single at the time of your retirement. A family policy at this time (for our district) is more than four times that amount. If you are married at the time of retirement and your spouse is not eligible for insurance for any reason, you will be paying about a thousand dollars a month towards your insurance. At the age that I will be eligible for medicare, this is eliminated. I don't know of any district in the state that pays the entire amount of insurance "for life."

As far as "early retirement" is concerned, it varies from district to district. Yes, you get to draw from your pension at a certain age, but anyone who can do that math realizes that earlier you draw your money, the quicker it runs out. Kind of like those who take the accelerated social security need to contemplate. It basically boils down to how long do you plan on living!

If you want to argue pensions, keep in mine our governor will receive a pension for life equal to his salary. That will be $137,000 per year FOR LIFE if it's based on this year's salary. I don't know what will happen in the case of a recall. And for those in big business - their pensions are obscene.

I would like to add that as an educator who taught under the QEO (qualified economic offer) most of her career, I have not been living off the state. Many years we received no raises to compensate for the rising cost of insurance. One year we took a pay cut. At least we had good benefits that made up for it.

I know times are tough, but the the unions have conceded on ALL MONETARY ISSUES. This is not about money, it's about union busting. In addition it is not fair.

Finally, as far as the state paying my wages, pension, insurance, etc. Every single time I go into a business and spend my money, I'm paying that for someone else. Every time I pay a bill, I'm paying that for someone else.

Just something for you to chew on!

Well said mimi61. I think much hearsay is the gist of many statistics 'quoted'.

Like I've always said...Those that teach, do. Those that can't, complain.

_________________
Life is too short for drama & petty things!
So, laugh insanely, love truly and forgive quickly!

I have been in the position so I know what I'm talking about. How could you own a home if you never made much money. How can you keep that home unless it's bought and paid for if you are down on your luck. You can't in the real world.

It's not homeowners we are discussing.

We talking about people who have for many years taken advantage of the system that allows it.

The program was started for people down on their luck---now it's a way of life. There is no goal to do better---because if they do--free money does not flow their way.

Their are more people depending on the free money then you are willing to see.

Do I know how to fix it---start with, stop teaching our kids the government is to take care of them!

Start teaching them how to think and not what to think.

I fell into the trap but thank goodness I learned it was much healthier to work hard for everything even if you have to go without things you believe your entitled to.

Do I want to begrudge a family down on their luck--ofcourse not, but the program is seriously flawed. Until they get the flaws out of it, I have a problem with it.

2 examples of people I know in Tomahawk.

Single father turns down hours of work because it puts him in another tax bracket.---6000 in free money

Family of 4, one full time, turns down extra work hours, different tax bracket, 15,000 in wages yearly----9000 in free money

Plus both have badgercare and food stamps.

Why would they want to stop recieving help when it so easy to scam the system and be lazy. No incentive to do better, because if you do better in life, the free money stops. No one is teaching them any different. Or taught them about personal accomplishments and self-esteem.

Earned income credit has now created a whole new entitlement program. So when you see your tax dollars enable this, you might understand.

Hmmm, interesting direction we're going here. Gonna go listen to some Zeppelin.

_________________
Life is too short for drama & petty things!
So, laugh insanely, love truly and forgive quickly!

I can backup the not getting a pension for life.

As a non-union state employee (I'm classified the same as a professor at the UW). I don't get anything toward health care after retirement that I know of. I do know that I am able to run any remaining sick time I have built up through a formula and then a small percentage can be used to help offset the cost of health insurance. Because of that, I haven't used a single sick day in the 3.5 years I've been there. The times I have been sick I've used a vacation day or personal leave instead. Doing so is so common there is a check box on our vacation form asking if we've used any vacation time rather than sick time during the month.

Realistically, this should get tax payers more bang for their buck. At my previous employer I was one of the few people that didn't "need" all of their sick time in the year because there was no reward for not using it. Basically, employees treated their sick days like additional vacation time (they just couldn't use it all at once). I think I used three or four days total in the five years I worked there.

I went back over the article about teachers recieving health care for life. It was somewhat misleading BUT with alittle digging found it's the Milwaukee teachers who will recieve this for life.
I'm sorry, I stand corrected.

http://www.wpri.org/Reports/Volume22/Vo ... 22No8.html

We have a friend who recently retired from a union state position. He was given the choice when retiring of taking unused vacation time or have health insurance for X amount of months. He took the insurance. (Which was his plan not taking vacation for a set amount of time to have health insurance for time after retirement.) Due to that he can be and has been called to work the job he had retired from. Since retirement he has been searching for an affordable insurance policy for he and his wife, as they will be paying entirely out of pocket. No benefits from the state. His comment to us was, I wish people would realize I haven't had it handed to me on a silver platter, I've worked hard, I pay my taxes, I've had to pay for my insurance and the benefit I'm receiving now through deferred compensation plans. His pension has not put them on easy street. His wife needs to still be working. It's very nice that at 55 he is retired. Well deserved after caring for the developmentally and emotionally disabled for 30 plus years. His also commented that if gas prices continue to go up he is considering a part time job. Which is nothing unusual for any retiree.

What I'm saying here is for the most part is none of us really know THE FACTS. There are many different aspects to state jobs, union and non union.

One more example. Single mom and daughter that are patients in the dental office where I'm employed, mom is a union state employee. She has only the state offered dental insurance at a cost of $25.00 per month to her. She has no state offered medical insurance because of the cost to her of $500 per month. She has gotten her own insurance with an extremely high deductible. It's basically an emergency only policy. She pays union dues, owns her own home, all on a wage of $11.25 per hour, 36 hours per week, tops. She has already been notified that if the governor's budget goes through she will be cut to 20 hours per week and the unemployment she had been receiving when laid off during the summer would not be an option. She's already looking for another job.

So again, I don't think anyone really knows all THE FACTS.

_________________
Life is too short for drama & petty things!
So, laugh insanely, love truly and forgive quickly!

@Tom B - where do you recommend we get our information from?

@Tom B.

Yes, we do it for the kids. The hours at school, the hours working at home on schoolwork, taking classes and credits to further our education and maintain our license, the nights awake worrying about the kid who's having trouble in math or the one who has a suspicious bruise...

But does that mean we shouldn't be treated at least as well as others? The firefighters, the police, the state patrol...? I respect them all (and particularly love the firefighters), but isn't what I do important, too? Does "doing it for the kids" mean volunteering my services? With 6 1/2 years post-high school education and two degrees I should at least be treated equally.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

It's time to move on & accept the fact that it's time for the the WI Democratic Party Senators to come back from their extended vacation in the garden state of IL & do the job they were elected to. They voted for funds from the tobacco settlement, the native american casinos, the highway fund, etc. get diverted to balance past budgets offered up by Doyle. Now it's time to "pay the piper". We're broke & need to use real $$ to pay our bills.

_________________
What if there were no hypothetical questions?

Illinois a vacation? Then why do so many of them come to here? ~big cheesy smile for Jeff~

_________________
Life is too short for drama & petty things!
So, laugh insanely, love truly and forgive quickly!

Based on my experience working part time in Door County while in high school, they come here to dump their garbage! While on an errand for the campground, I came around a curve in the road by Murphy Park & had to swerve to avoid a car parked in the middle of the curve. The man was on one side of the road answering "Nature's call" while the woman was on the other side dumping trash from the car into the ditch. The car had IL plates.

(How's that for a generalization?)

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What if there were no hypothetical questions?

_________________
"There are two parties in politics: Republicans and Democrats. Republicans have bad ideas, Democrats have no ideas." - Lewis Black

Thanks for sharing neup99 but I think I just threw up in my mouth.

_________________
Life is too short for drama & petty things!
So, laugh insanely, love truly and forgive quickly!

You can thank the Democratic Senators for that. Also, considering that Lena Taylor has apparently requested an absentee ballot, they will be on vacation a little while longer.

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"There are two parties in politics: Republicans and Democrats. Republicans have bad ideas, Democrats have no ideas." - Lewis Black

Good for them for standing strong on what they feel is best for our state!

_________________
Life is too short for drama & petty things!
So, laugh insanely, love truly and forgive quickly!