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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:44 pm 
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Read what you wrote twerp. I'm easy as heck to find. No hiding for me.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:47 pm 
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River Rat,

I've already said multiple times, my proposals won't stop something like that. They WILL help reduce the much more common gun crimes though. Sandy Hooks are a very small percentage of gun crimes. Daily murders, assaults, robberies, etc. are MUCH more common. Reducing the availability of guns to criminals most definitely will reduce their use in those types of crimes. And since what I'm suggesting doesn't stop anyone who legally can own a gun from getting one, it seems to be a simple trade off...


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:51 pm 
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You can call me a fanatic but I once saw a movie where only the Police and the Military had guns, it was called Schindler's List.


Funny, same movie, they locked people up without charging them with a crime, with no recourse simply because they were different. And yet somehow it's perfectly acceptable to want to lock people up because they're mentally ill and could commit a crime?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:06 pm 
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Kerry, regarding your response to River Rat,
Kerry Tobin wrote:
Daily murders, assaults, robberies, etc. are MUCH more common. Reducing the availability of guns to criminals most definitely will reduce their use in those types of crimes.

What will reduce "daily murders, assults, robberies etc." is more armed law abiding citizens and less regulation, not to mention punishment in the country that fits the crime. The lady that shot the intruder this past week to protect herself and her children, he already had prior convictions. Well, if his fingers were cut off for the previous criminal acts, then I don't believe he'd be running around trying to do it again now would he? Also, Tomahawk is a perfect example of murders that are commitied without a gun. The past 2 murders that were committed in recent years did not have a gun at all. You don't need a gun to commit them, you just need something as simple as a kitchen knife or ones bare hands. Criminals are criminals, they are going to act by any means possible, as Tooten already stated.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:15 pm 
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I never said anyone should be locked up without cause. Don't worry when Biden slams thru his mandates their will be plenty of people locked up unconstitutionly. Did you see the recorded comments Holder made a few years ago about brainwashing and gun possesion. Those people are mad. They've obviously been waiting for something like that Sandy Hook incident to roll with. Like I said when they're done with the 2nd they'll be onto the 22nd. Funny they haven't started training the US Army to march with a goose-step. Perhaps they will save that for the ATF or what ever it will be called.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:16 pm 
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mizriz wrote:
You don't need a gun to commit them, you just need something as simple as a kitchen knife or ones bare hands.


So, given the choice to be attacked by the person with the gun or the one with the knife, which one are you going to choose? Same day as the woman saving her kids (a story I passed on to other people) a man shot his son with his conceal carry gun because he thought he was going to be carjacked.

More guns isn't necessarily the answer either, at least not in the untrained hands of many of the people that have them. I was for Wisconsin getting concealed carry (I got a permit although I doubt I'll ever carry in Wisconsin). However, it's stupid that taking a hunters safety course 20 years ago means you've had enough training to carry a firearm and expect to be able to safely use it in a scary situation.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:17 pm 
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tooten wrote:
I never said anyone should be locked up without cause.


That's what most of the people that were in those institutions were facing. Remember it's estimated over 26% of Americans over 18 could be diagnosed with a mental illness.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:38 pm 
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That 26% plus a few of those on the dole must be where Obama says he has the mandate from the American people to ban guns. Soon he will have a mandate to declare himself King or whatever. Read some history anywhere a strict gun contol was established and people were unable to defend themselves, the were rounded up and exterminated at the will of the government. "Because they had a mandate."


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:14 pm 
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Tell me, how many shooting happen in Utah schools. In Utah, it is legal to carry in a school. You don't here about kids accidentally being shot. How many do you think would of been shot in Aurora if every retired military person was able to concealed carry anywhere in the good ol' U.S.A. and was encouraged to do so. Anywhere except the standard jails, courthouses, mental institutions.
It's funny how the government doesn't want to talk about the real problem. Big Pharm. and mental illness. How many drugs out there caution you about suicide. You honestly think suicide is the only bad thing that can happen.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:45 pm 
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The more I read and listen to the news about the gun control issue, the more I am convinced it isn't about the guns, it is about control.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:00 pm 
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Old Scout wrote:
The more I read and listen to the news about the gun control issue, the more I am convinced it isn't about the guns, it is about control.


Old Scout, that was part of my goal. My suggestions shouldn't give the government more control (I actually thought about that). I had the process go through an FFL because they are private entities.

I'll even concede that requiring the FFL to keep full records might be an issue in the future. How about we limit what the FFL keeps to keeping the serial number and the date and time of transfer? That way, there is still a third party record that it was transferred, but no names attached to be tracked?

---------------------------------------

Nothing I've suggested keeps anyone who can legally purchase a gun from doing so. It does significantly reduce the number of guns available to someone that can't legally purchase them though.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:39 pm 
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I find it ironic that so many of the same people that firmly believe you should have to pass a drug test to get food stamps are so vehemently opposed to the idea of having to pass a background check to buy a gun...


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:44 pm 
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asterix wrote:
In Utah, it is legal to carry in a school.


Utah also requires more thorough training than Wisconsin. And in Utah you have to become a member to have a drink at a bar (sorry, a "club").

There are also a number of other states that have never had a school shooting (which isn't what my suggestion try to prevent anyway) that don't allow guns at schools.

And since most of the idiots doing this don't have any intention of leaving the school alive anyway, they're still going to get off a few rounds before anyone gets a chance to shoot them. None of the people with a gun at the Giffords shooting ever fired and there were still quite a few people hurt...


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:51 pm 
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Asterix,
Although mental illness is the root cause of many of these mass murders, it's not on the progressive's agenda to give mental illness anything more than a token look. Biden's objective seems to be outlawing automatic weapons by any means necessary and who cares what the 2nd Amendment is all about. These hearings, if you want to call them that, were an excuse to ram through a pile of Executive Orders that were predetermined. The "hearings" were a show piece for the national media types to give it their blessing and promotion. If you find the liberal agenda objectionable or disagree with it you could be labeled a fanatic and placed on a list that won't allow you to posses a gun.

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The more I read and listen to the news about the gun control issue, the more I am convinced it isn't about the guns, it is about control.


Old Scout hit the nail on the head with this statement. I to belive it's about control. The power is in the control of individuals within the population and that's what they're after.

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find it ironic that so many of the same people that firmly believe you should have to pass a drug test to get food stamps are so vehemently opposed to the idea of having to pass a background check to buy a gun...


How about a drug test for free food stamps and gun purchases. If you fail, banned for life from both, but that won't happen.


Last edited by tooten on Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:04 pm 
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Tooten,

It's nit picky, but automatic weapons are generally already illegal. That's one of the things I've had to constantly keep pointing out to non-gun people that think we should just ban guns, etc. so it's something those that do believe in gun rights should be careful about. Too many think anyone can walk into a store and buy an automatic weapon not understanding the difference between automatic and semi-automatic (and not knowing the current laws).


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:28 pm 
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Quote:
I find it ironic that so many of the same people that firmly believe you should have to pass a drug test to get food stamps are so vehemently opposed to the idea of having to pass a background check to buy a gun...


If I have to pass a drug test to earn the money, what is wrong with passing a drug test to give my money to someone else to spend ? :roll:
I do believe that this is an entirely different subject and and is like comparing apples to bowling balls, so what was your point ?

Background checks are already required to buy a gun. What I do with it once I own it is the question. It all leads back to the concern of creating a paper trail, keeping records of owners and the control factor.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:33 pm 
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automatic weapons are not illegal to own. They are just illegal to manufacture for the civilian population.

Yes I believe people should have to be drug tested for food stamps.
I would more than gladly line up to take a drug test for a free gun that I thought I was entitled to because I don't have a job and don't ever intend on getting one. But don't worry because I'll just have another kid to pay for my ammo and teach them how to live off the system as well.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:41 pm 
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Asterix...is that correct what you said...that it's not illegal to own an automatic weapon?

To me an automatic weapon is one where as long as I hold the trigger down rounds will keep firing...think machine gun. Semi-automatic is where I have to squeeze the trigger for each round that fires.

Are you sure about what you said? Never heard that before....just curious....

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:31 pm 
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Any preban full auto weapons are allowed. They must be nfa registered. No one can manufacture a full auto weapon. They can however be transferred from one individual to another.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:05 pm 
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Asterix,

Depends where you live. In Wisconsin full auto is generally against the law with only a few exceptions. In other states you only need to pass much more strict background checks, get approval from the local sheriff, pay a couple of hundred dollar fee and then you can buy one manufactured before something like 1984. And the price usually starts around $10k from what I've seen.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:30 pm 
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Very scary to hear that fully automatics are legal anywhere in the US. Didn't know that. Always ASSumed that fully autos were illegal.

Darn scary...but maybe that's just me... :shock: :shock: :shock:

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:38 pm 
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I have never looked into it closely, but from what I hear getting a permit to own one isn't easy and they are closely regulated. Most end up with collectors.

I also understand there is a range somewhere near Vegas where they have a weekend when they can take them out and shoot them just for fun. In fact anyone who pays a fee can try one out. Doesn't turn me on but then I guess I have just shot them before and had enough fun with them.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:13 am 
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Of all the shootings that have taken place from way back to the Tower of the University of Texas in Austin shooting in 1966 I've never heard of anyone using a fully automatic rifle. I may be wrong. Little consolation....but I'm somewhat relieved by that fact. God forbid if it ever does occur. Pray it never happens !!!

Fully automatic...think of the carnage it would inflict !!! Don't like them being available...period!!!

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Last edited by kmartell on Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:14 am 
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Food for thought ! :)

A blogger added up the deer license sales in just a handful of states and arrived at a striking conclusion:

* There were over 600,000 hunters this season in the state of Wisconsin .

* Over the last several months, Wisconsin 's hunters became the eighth largest army in the world.

* More men under arms than in Iran .

* More than in France and Germany combined.

* That number pales in comparison to the 750,000 who hunted the woods of Pennsylvania and Michigan's 700,000 hunters,

* Toss in a quarter million hunters in West Virginia and it literally establishes the fact that the hunters of those four states alone would comprise the largest army in the world.

*The number of Hunters in the state of Texas would be the largest standing army in the world all by itself.

The point?

*America will forever be safe from foreign invasion with that kind of home-grown firepower.

* Hunting -- it's not just a way to fill the freezer. It's a matter of national security.

* That's why all enemies, foreign and domestic, want to see us disarmed.

* Food for thought when next we consider gun control. :)

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:22 am 
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Found this from a quick Google....

LEADING DEER HUNTING STATES
(Licensed Resident Deer Hunters)
Pennsylvania 1,299,372
Michigan 1,005,000
Wisconsin 894,543
New York 812,446
Texas 645,000

Cripes...almost 2 million in just WI and MI !!!! But not a human harmed that I can tell by those 2 or 3 weeks of hunting !!! Responsible and law abiding !!!

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