What an insane thought that on an average day, I probably would have been on that highway, en route to Roseville.

Counting my lucky stars and sending my thoughts out to the rest....

_________________
"Be excellent to each other." - Bill S Preston, Esquire & Ted "Theodore" Logan

Yes, my older son was planning to come via that route after work to go visit a friend. Instead he was too tired so took his usual route home.

I live where 35 E goes over the river and I have always said a prayer whenever I cross the river at any bridge.

The most miraculous story I thought was the school bus full of children. That they all got out safely and only a few minor injuries is truly a miracle.

_________________
Nell

More women die of lung cancer than breast cancer. If you smoke, quit. If you don't, don't start.

Friends never lets friends drive drunk.

Those people were truly able to bear witness to the saying we've all heard...."Did you ever have the feeling the earth just fell out beneath you?"

That bridge had a score of 50, the bridge in Tomahawk that goes over the river has a score of 46.6 and a Status of "D" which means the bridge has been rated structurally deficient. I know it has no where near the traffic as the one that collapsed in Minneapolis but still ...

Just a note to clarify... The DOT starts considering replacing a bridge when it reaches a rating of 50.

<small>[ August 03, 2007, 10:37 PM: Message edited by: Kerry Tobin ]</small>

Off the subject, but I am curious as to where they get the information that the Veterans Memorial Bridge is 70 years old. I clearly remember that it was rebuilt somewhere around the middle to late 1970's time frame. Originally it was a narrow two lane bridge with steel sides, a walkway on one side and large cement pillars on each end. It and the 86 bridge were of basicly the same design before it was replaced. :confused:

_________________
God and the Soldier we all adore,
In times of trouble and then no more
when war is over and all things righted
God is forgotten, the old soldier Slighted.

Actually, I stand corrected. The bridge in Tomahawk that has the 46.6/D rating is the 86 bridge, NOT the one that goes over the river/51 bridge.

I talked with a police officer friend tonight. She said the TV scenes of the site do not begin to show the devastation that has occured. It is so much worse than it appears on TV. The river bed is literally choked with cars. Where it looks like 2 or 3 cars atop one another where the bridge buckles are there's really 10 or so, most totally flattened.

One Spooner, WI couples were unbelievably lucky. Their toddler daughter had been air lifted to Children's in Minneapolis with a head injury after a fall in Spooner. Her parents were driving in to be at the hospital. They were in a jeep and just as they got on the bridge they rolled down their windows. They ended up upside down on the bottom of the river. They both escaped and swam to the top!!

One of the dead identified is an adoptive mom of 2 Colombian daughters. I have 2 Colombian sons so I just feel extra sad for the family.

Most of us here in the Twin Cities are sad. Almost all of us have travelled that bridge, we all have friends and family members who travel it daily, and it has just hit very hard.

_________________
Nell

More women die of lung cancer than breast cancer. If you smoke, quit. If you don't, don't start.

Friends never lets friends drive drunk.

There are two 51 bridges over the river. There's one in town and there's one near King's Dam. The King's Dam one should still have a decent rating, my kids and I watched it being built about 1985 or so.

_________________
Nell

More women die of lung cancer than breast cancer. If you smoke, quit. If you don't, don't start.

Friends never lets friends drive drunk.

The one I had referred to was the main one in town, not the one by King's Dam. In any case, it isn't the one with the bad rating, it's the one out on 86 to E. Sorry for the confusion.

The Appleton Post Crescent Link has a database of all the bridges in the state if you want to check them. (I put it up yesterday).

so... the 4th street bridge is at a rating of 46 or so & structuraly deficient - can we afford to wait the 5 years that they project for replacement?

In case you are wondering about the 4th st. bridge and the 86 bridge.

I knew the 86 bridge isn't all that old. I remember when they built it.

Aph. hate to tell you but I am afraid you are the one that is confused.

NC LINCOLN C-TOMAHAWK STATE HIGHWAY DEPT 4TH STREET WISCONSIN RIVER 42 46.6 S.D. & F.O

Structurally deficient means the bridge needs corrective action, but it is not necessarily unsafe for traffic.

Functionally obsolete refers to a geometric deficiency such as lanes or shoulders that are too narrow.

NC LINCOLN C-TOMAHAWK STATE HIGHWAY DEPT STH 86-TOMAHAWK AVE WISCONSIN RIVER 41 75.5

<small>[ August 05, 2007, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: Old Scout ]</small>

_________________
God and the Soldier we all adore,
In times of trouble and then no more
when war is over and all things righted
God is forgotten, the old soldier Slighted.

As Paul Harvey would say, now, for the rest of the story:

Sheriff: Bridge Survivor Arrested For Child Abuse
(AP) Shell Lake, Wis. Michael Stoner told a heart-wrenching tale last week of being caught in the Minneapolis bridge collapse as he and his fiancee rushed to the hospital to be with her injured 2-year-old daughter.

But police said this week that Stoner left something out of his story: He is now in jail, accused of inflicting the life-threatening injuries the child suffered.

The 26-year-old Spooner man initially said 2-year-old Emmaline Manning began suffering seizures after a fall down the stairs, Washburn County District Attorney Michael Bitney said. He drove the child to the cafe in Baronett where her mother, 21-year-old Crystal Manning, worked. The couple then took the child to a Shell Lake hospital, and doctors had her airlifted to Children's Hospitals and Clinics of Minnesota.

The couple told journalists they were rushing to the Minneapolis hospital to be with the child when the Interstate 35W bridge collapsed with them on it. Their Jeep landed upside down in the Mississippi River and quickly sank. The couple said they were able to escape through an open window.

Manning said she spotted her daughter's blanket in the water after she surfaced.

"I swam by this and said, 'There's my daughter's blanket!"' she said. "'How unreal that it's right there."

But authorities said Monday that the couple told only part of the story.

Bitney and Washburn County Sheriff Terry Dryden said Stoner was arrested on child abuse charges after doctors determined Emmaline's injuries were consistent with shaken-baby syndrome. Stoner was being held Tuesday in Washburn County Jail.

The child has a life-threatening brain injury, and doctors found a burn on one leg and a human bite mark and bruises in other spots, Bitney said. Doctors have taken drastic measures to save her.

"They've cut off half her skull to allow the brain to swell," he said. "It's horrendous."

Bitney said Emmaline was on life support in grave condition. If she dies, Stoner could be charged with homicide, he said. Stoner is not Emmaline's father.

"He was the only one with her the day she was injured," Bitney said. "He had dropped the mother off at work early that morning. Then he came back, and in early afternoon claimed the child had fallen down the stairs."

The prosecutor said physicians were suspicious from the start as they eyed the large, long burn on the toddler's leg, the bite, old and new bruises and the massive head injury, which would not have been caused by a fall down carpeted stairs.

It's not clear what Manning knew about the injuries, but she could be charged as well, Bitney said.

He said there was sadness on many levels in the case.

"What happened to Mr. Stoner and his fiancee was tragic, just like it was for all the people who were in the terrible bridge collapse," Bitney said. "But what happened to the daughter was not a tragic accident.

"It was, we believe, the result of physical abuse of a child, whose life now hangs in the balance."

So, I wish he had drowned instead but maybe it's better he didn't. Other criminals hate child abusers. They don't fare well in prison.

_________________
Nell

More women die of lung cancer than breast cancer. If you smoke, quit. If you don't, don't start.

Friends never lets friends drive drunk.

Amen Nell.

_________________
What if there were no hypothetical questions?

The bridge going down like it did is a reminder that our days are numbered.. it doesn't matter where you are or what you are doing.. if it is your time to die.. you will.. doesn't matter if you smoke or eat McDonald's every day.. Think about it.

Well ,true enough. Of course if you smoke your time to die will come sooner. With McDonalds depends on what you eat.

As for the bridge collapse those deaths might have been avoided had more attention been paid to the inspections. I don't think hearing "if it's your time to die...you will" is a very supportive message to survivors or family members of victims.

_________________
Nell

More women die of lung cancer than breast cancer. If you smoke, quit. If you don't, don't start.

Friends never lets friends drive drunk.

Old Scout, I never accused anyone of being confused. I only relayed the information found on the DOT website. So I guess the DOT was confused?

D 46.6 TOMAHAWK LINCOLN WISCONSIN RIVER 42 0.2M N JCT STH 86 TO E

This is direct from the U.S. Department of Transportation's Federal Highway Administration, which includes inspections through December 2006.

A structurally deficient bridge is closed or restricted to light vehicles because of its deteriorated structural components. While not necessarily unsafe, these bridges must have limits for speed and weight.

A functionally obsolete bridge has older design features and, while it is not unsafe for all vehicles, it cannot safely accommodate current traffic volumes, and vehicle sizes and weights.

Nell,
What I was getting at is that if you believe in God for real then you will see that no matter what you do you can not stop his will and blaming people and looking to take it to court is not the answer. We can not all live in a plastic bubble afraid all the time. I feel the hurt of the family members that lost a loved one but.. I have lost a love one too because of a bridge being to slippery in the month of Sept in 2003.. also i think those railings on the bridges are not long enough in this area.. get over the bridge then you go over the edge of a steep hill. Do I blame God or the road? Things happen and what will be will be...

I guess if you believe in that type of God you're right. I can't believe in a God who allows babies and children to suffer abuse, to get fatal diseases. I believe God created the universe but then leaves it's operation up to us. I don't believe God allows some people to get diseases and others not to. I can't believe in a God that would protect some people on the bridge but not others, just as worthy of being saved. So no, I don't think God has anything to do with the randomness of life.

If we believe our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit, which I was taught as a Catholic, then we will take care of our bodies, not polluting it with harmful carcinogens, super sized portions, etc.

I agree with you that taking others to court is not the answer, most of the time. It's the American way, spill hot coffee, sue McDonald's. I think the only condition that would make me possibly sue is if a drunk driver killed or injured anyone in my family. I would take legal action.

_________________
Nell

More women die of lung cancer than breast cancer. If you smoke, quit. If you don't, don't start.

Friends never lets friends drive drunk.