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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 5:39 pm 
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http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/wdhlocal/277322139963759.shtml

Tue, Mar 25, 2003

Man faces charge in attack on protester

By Joel Christopher
Wausau Daily Herald
jchristo@wdhprint.com

Wausau police have no plans to increase patrols at war protests outside the Marathon County Courthouse after witnesses said a man attacked one of the demonstrators Monday.

Five squad cars responded to the site of the twice-daily protests after someone called 911 at about 4:30 p.m. to report that a man was assaulting one of the war protesters.

Jane Rusch, 42, of Wausau, one of the demonstrators, said a man tried to grab the upside-down, defaced Amer-ican flag carried by protester Mike Wallschlaeger, 39, of Mosinee. When Wallsch-laeger refused to give up the flag, Rusch said the man pushed him to the ground and punched and kicked him.

Police on the scene said they planned to forward a report to District Attorney Jill Falstad recommending that both Wallschlaeger and the man, whom police refused to identify Monday night, be charged with disorderly conduct.

Later Monday night, Police Chief Bill Brandimore said police would forward a report to the district attorney's office recommending charges against the man thought to have attacked Wallschlaeger, but not against Wallschlaeger.

"We're going to prosecute him because that's disorderly conduct," Brandimore said. "The right to free speech is protected by the Wausau Police Department. Dis-orderly conduct is not protected."
The Monday incident was the second in four days. On Friday a man parked his pickup truck in a lot across from the square, ran over to Wallschlaeger and threatened to beat him up.

Lt. Gary Spatz, the shift commander at the time, downplayed Monday's incident and the need for extra patrols.

"As a matter of routine, we've been keeping an eye on the situation," Spatz said. "We're at 515 Grand Avenue. That's three blocks from there. How hard do you think it is to keep an eye on it?
"There was a call that there was an unruly person," he said. "It was not a big deal."
University of Wisconsin-Madison professor Donald Downs, a First Amendment expert, said that displaying a defaced American flag is clearly within protesters' rights.

"It's highly provocative, but that's what free speech is all about," he said. "The courts have consistently upheld the right to burn the flag, and this does not rise to that level."
The courts also have held that demonstrators have no constitutional right to police protection, Downs said.

But the fact that Wausau police provided protection this month to antigay demonstrators gives war protesters a stronger case that they are entitled to reasonable protection.

"I think a case could be made that there is a right to police protection," Downs said, "but it's not a slam dunk. But put it this way: There's a much clearer constitutional obligation."
Downs said the city would be within its rights to refuse to provide protection if protesters chose to be in public 24 hours a day, but the fact that they are limiting their protests to 90 minutes at lunchtime and 90 minutes at rush hour bolsters their case for protection if they seek it.

Wallschlaeger, for his part, said he plans to continue the protests, and the other two protesters with him Monday afternoon, Rusch and Wayne Olson, 64, of Wausau, said they will do the same.

Brandimore said he would continue to monitor the protests to determine whether a stronger police presence is necessary.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 8:32 pm 
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I think your subject is a little misleading!!!

First lets get something out of the way. I understand the reasoning for this war and don't believe there was a better option, however, I am not necessarily pro-war.

And on with the discussion:

The man who attacked the protester was wrong! I may not agree with what you or anyone else is saying at a demonstration but I would fight for your right to say it. Remember that my livelihood for my entire life has been based on Freedom of Speech. My parents own a newspaper and I now work for the largest newspaper company in the world, it is important to me. I also agree with methods used in the past to hide protesters from view (they used angel wings) and personally believe certain groups should be blocked out if possible (KKK for instance) but they have a right to be there and protest.

At the same time the man who defaced the flag and held it upside down was also wrong! The US Flag is a symbol representing the government of the United States of America. That government gives you the right to protest. Basically, defacing or burning a flag equates to burning your right to free speech. You might as well take a match to the constitution (you think this guy had problems). Also, holding a flag upside-down is an international sign of distress. Unless the guy was having a heart attack it was inappropriate to hold any flag upside-down, period!

Without seeing anything other than this article I am coming to a couple of conclusions. First, both these morons were wrong. Second, if the police are three blocks away they can probably get there pretty quickly if needed. Third, I'm assuming that if this is a peaceful protest most people may argue a little bit but wont be violent. Fourth, why was this guy in two altercations in two days and no one else involved? Could it be this person was rude, obscene or out of line (which could explain the disorderly conduct)?

On to a few other thoughts:

I saw a bumper sticker I like.
"If you're going to burn our flag
wrap yourself in it first!"

I wonder what the families of many of those serving their country think of the protesters. Same goes for members of our military. It must be kind of hard to do your duty when a minority of people at home are loudly yelling you are wrong.

Also, isn't it kind of late for protests??? I really doubt anyone in our government is going to say, "Hey, ya know, maybe we should stop now." Just isn't going to happen.

Personally, I'd rather see people spending their time working toward something productive like drives to raise funds for the Iraqis after the war is over. Maybe something to send supplies over to help rebuild or improve schools (children are one of the best ways to influence the future of a country).

Well, this got kind of long; feel free to continue your protest now.

<small>[ March 25, 2003, 07:37 PM: Message edited by: Kerry Tobin ]</small>


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 10:25 pm 
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Greetigns,
Why isn't the "patriot" who is defiling the American Flag also facing charges. While it is true that he has the right to free speech, the Uniform Flag Law of 1917, prohibits the desecration of the flag or its use for advertising and publicity purposes. I would think that the DA of Marathon County should file charges as well against the protester. Not for waht he has to say. That is a right that I will fight for until the day I die. However, no one has the right to desecrate the US flag. Just ask Larry Flint!

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 10:32 pm 
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From above: "University of Wisconsin-Madison professor Donald Downs, a First Amendment expert, said that displaying a defaced American flag is clearly within protesters' rights."

Of course there are some people who think the amendments are not worth as much as the constitution itself.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 10:37 pm 
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Greetings,
I would refer then to Wisconsin State Statutes:

946.06
946.06 Improper use of the flag.
946.06(1)
(1) Whoever intentionally does any of the following is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor:

946.06(1)(a)
(a) Places on or attaches to the flag any word, mark, design, or advertisement not properly a part of such flag; or

946.06(1)(b)
(b) Exposes to public view a flag upon which has been placed or attached a word, mark, design, or advertisement not properly a part of such flag.

Sounds like this gentleman is in fact commiting a crime under current Wisconsin Law. By displaying a "defaced" American flag (is was referenced in the article) and by displaying it upside down, this gentleman is indeed in violation of the law.

Again, I do not disent with the protester's right to express his views. I must dissagree with the Madison professor and once again submit to the rule of laws that we all as citizens must follow.

<small>[ March 25, 2003, 09:41 PM: Message edited by: MedicDVG ]</small>

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 10:49 pm 
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Greetings,
I must myself eat some humble pie with a side of crow. Had I looked further in the statutes I would have discovered that the statute in question was ruled to be unconstitutional and therefore voided by the State Supreme Court.
I promise to do better research in the future.

However, it brings up a very interesting point. Just what is free speech and what should be held as a National Symbol?

As you probably guessed, I think that the US flag is very much a sacred icon of our country and should be protected. But I am also very aware of the concept of "liberty that is limited is liberty that is lost."

Again I must state the great ability of the citizens of this country to agree to disagree.

Suffuce it to say that both of the knuckleheads in this case share some blame for the incident.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 10:54 pm 
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I have to agree MedicDVG.

There is a difference between being anti-war and anti-American. I believe that many of the anti-war protestors are not anti-American; however, there are many individuals, such as the flag burner, that are anti-American. What is important now is, as Kerry stated, to find other ways to deal with what is going on in Iraq. Helping to raise funds to support the citizens of Iraq, which may help defray the costs of the 74.7 billion dollars that Bush is asking for to help rebuild Iraq. The point is that we are at war and there is nothing that any single protestor nor mass protestors can do to change that. What we can do now, as Americans, is to hope and pray that the men and women (and now dolphins - which I am mentioning for those PETA-philes) come home safe and honor the individuals that sacrificed their lives to make Iraq a better place for it's citizens. If they can put their life on the line for non-American's, we MUST support them. This support should also be for the service men and women from England, Poland, and other Coalition countries that are fighting alongside our service people.

**Also a note to MedicDVG - not all that long ago I had my children in the ER and you were one of the staff caring for them. I want to thank you for being one of the best medical personnel that have worked with my children. Although it was a non-life threatening visit, a trip to the ER can be a scary trip and you made my son feel like a it was exciting, rather than scary, and made him feel like a grown-up. You were also fantastic with my baby daughter. It's people like you that make me feel comfortable bringing my children to a place that is often scary for them. Thank you.**

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 11:16 pm 
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Unfortunatly I fully believe everyone has the right to burn the flag. But, if you do burn the flag I think you are a moron. That "flag" gives you more protection than pretty much any other flag offers. You burn it or deface it you argue against the same rights you are using to protest.

I also agree with my father, the girl who is turning her back on the flag at her basketball games should simply pack her bags and leave, we don't need her here. I dare her to try that in N. Korea.

Kind of the same thought for the Dumb Chicks. Nothing like upsetting half your market. For the second time now I simply change the channel as soon as I hear one of their songs. They have a right to say what they want and I have a right to disagree.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2003 10:53 am 
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More on the Wausau incident:
Wed, Mar 26, 2003
Chief to officers: Protect protesters

By Joel Christopher Wausau Daily Herald
jchristo@wdhprint.com

Wausau Police Chief Bill Brandimore took steps Tuesday to ensure that officers are protecting the rights of war protesters.

Brandimore acted after an incident Monday in which witnesses said a man assaulted a war protester on the south side of the Marathon County Courthouse.
Police who responded said both men would face disorderly conduct charges, but Brandimore said later that only the man accused of committing the assault, Casimir Krasowski, 63, of Wausau would be charged.

Police officials questioned officers who responded and witnesses about how the incident was handled, and Brandimore sent a memo Tuesday to officers reminding them of their obligation to protect demonstrators.

Many residents were upset that protesters Mike Wallschlaeger, 39, of Mosinee and Wayne Olson, 64, of Wausau had been carrying upside-down, defaced American flags since military action against Iraq began last week.
Wallschlaeger said at least one police officer who responded said he would not protect Wallschlaeger in the future, and another told him that the best response to another threat was to leave the courthouse area.

Brandimore said he explained in his memo what kind of protest activity is protected by the First Amendment.
"The Supreme Court says what the Constitution means, and burning or defacing the flag is expressive speech which is protected," Brandimore said. "We're sworn and duty-bound to uphold the Constitution."
Meanwhile, Wallschlaeger said he will not continue his protests, which have gone on every weekday since before Christmas.

"I don't want violence and McCarthyism, and that's what we've seen," he said. "It's not only the physical confrontations, it's the ramifications to my business."
Wallschlaeger, who runs a contract delivery service, would not say what effect the protests have had on his business.

Although Wallschlaeger is not continuing the protests, Olson said he intends to keep going.

"I came to the conclusion that I'm protecting my constitutional rights and I'm going to keep doing it," he said.

Olson spent the first 15 minutes at lunchtime protesting alone, but he was joined by Gerry Whipps, 63, of Wausau, who said he was angered by news reports about the alleged attack on Wallschlaeger and decided to join the protests.

Whipps has a son, Jonathan, who has been in Kuwait since February with the U.S. Army.

"My wife and I are pro-peace and pro-troops, but I can't be more distressed than I am that someone would use violence against someone who is essentially anti-violence," Whipps said.

The war protests also drew Cassie McLain, 49, of Wausau to the triangle during lunchtime. She showed up to give Cokes and encouragement to the demonstrators.

"I find it interesting that the pro-war group here flies the flag when these gentlemen (the war protesters) are supporting what this country stands for," she said.

"I don't think war is the answer to terrorism, and I appreciate the fact that these demonstrators have been out here every day making that point."


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2003 5:30 pm 
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“They hung the women by their hair and allowed the army to rape them and made their husbands and children watch.”

“They put them feet first into to a human shredder, that was the worst offenders, so they would suffer more. Others were put in head first and they died more quickly. The remains were put into plastic bags to be used for fish food.”

“Women were hung up by their heels in public while menstruating to shame them.”

“They beat me until my skin broke and bled, they hung me up by my feet, they used electrical shock on my lips, my fingers and my nipples. They made me walk on broken glass. They allowed they soldiers to rape me. They did this for 11 months and then they sentenced me to 3 years in jail. They sentenced my mother to 9 months. They killed my farther and his brothers. -16 year old school girl because her teachers found a note she wrote saying there was some things about the government she did not like.

--eye witness reports on how Saddam treats his own people.

Horrible stuff. Think about this as you go about your war protesting, giving even the slightest bit of support to this madman’s regime.

Do I support war protesters right of freedom of seppch....? Go back up and read this post again....then you figure it out......you have to make choices .... you portest this war you are making one.... one that supports the behavior above... rape, executions and torture.... you are either part of the solution...or you are part of the problem!!!

<small>[ March 29, 2003, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: JFlosum ]</small>


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2003 8:47 pm 
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As I have asked others that delight in posting and reposting these "eye-witness" accounts: Are you attempting to use this as justification for waging war on a country? If so why not waging it on other countries where the evidence is even more overwhelming??

Some countries find it morally and culturally reprehensible to practice capital punishment? Would they be justified in waging war on us in the U.S for this?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 8:38 pm 
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Dwarf, China does that. Girl babies are killed at birth also because they do not have the same "value" as males; they eat and can’t do the same heavy work as a male. Iraq sure doesn’t have exclusivity on brutality. It is against their laws to practice this long time policy, but in the rural areas it is still done and the numbers were staggering. In the thousands.

Incidentally, in Iraq over 400,000 babies have died from preventable malnutrition and curable childhood diseases simple because Saddam has with held food and basic medicine. He is on record as having said repeatedly that they have 25,000,000 people in the county but they only need 5,000,000. So I guess in his mind, he has 20,000,000 to kill or allow to parish while he hoards billions of dollars, more then enough to feed every single person in the country. That will put him right up there with Stalin, who was much worse then Hitler.

And… the latest FOX polls show over a 76-78% approval rating of the war… It’s getting larger…


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2003 8:45 pm 
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Lot of cities have felt the brutality of Saddam:

Basra
The suppression of the rebellion was marked by:
mass executions of civilians.
civilians were tied to tanks and used by government forces as human shields.
civilians were reportedly drowned in the Shatt al-Arab waterway by tying them to rocks and pushing them in.

Najaf
In the counter-offensive beginning on 12th March, 1991, Iraqi government forces:
randomly bombarded residential areas.
murdered hospital staff and patients.
publicly executed suspected rebels and destroyed their homes.
people were told by loudspeaker to evacuate the city for their own safety within 24 hours and head north. When the people of the city had concentrated in its northern suburbs, helicopters opened fire.

Karbala
Karbala, 50 miles north of al-Najaf, suffered the heaviest damage of all the major cities. The rebellion there began on 5th March, 1991.
artillery and helicopter bombardment of the city by Iraqi government forces began the next day.
some of Shi'a Islam's holiest shrines were destroyed. Other shrines were used as centres for murder, torture and rape.
there was deliberate concentration of fire on Al-Husseini hospital and many of its doctors and nurses were executed. Patients were thrown out of windows.
there were mass executions of suspected rebels in stadiums.

http://www.indict.org.uk/index.php


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2003 8:53 pm 
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Here is a like to the organization that has been trying to bring Saddam and his faimily of butchers to justice for some time now.

http://www.indict.org.uk/about.php

The chair of INDICT is Ann Clwyd MP, who is also Chair of the UK All-Party Parliamentary Human Rights Group. Other members of the board include senior members of the Iraqi opposition, human rights activists and leading international lawyers. The work of INDICT has been supported by former US President Bill Clinton, former UK Prime Ministers Baroness Margaret Thatcher and John Major, and by UK Prime Minister Tony Blair, among others.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2003 2:33 am 
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"Incidentally, in Iraq over 400,000 babies have died from preventable malnutrition and curable childhood diseases simple because Saddam has with held food and basic medicine."

Incidentally, this is due to sanctions rabidly enforced by the US even as they knew sanctions were doing nothing effective against Saddam.

What justification has Bush offered for his war?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2003 9:53 am 
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"Incidentally, in Iraq over 400,000 babies have died from preventable malnutrition and curable childhood diseases simple because Saddam has with held food and basic medicine."

Incidentally, this is due to sanctions rabidly enforced by the US"

Would you please make up your mind.

First you say Saddam has withheld food and medicine,(so apparently it is available) but this is due to the sanctions.

If they have it, then the sanctions must not have anything to do with the problem, and the problem is Saddam.

If you are trying to make a point you can't have it both ways. :D

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2003 10:09 am 
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Perhaps you did not see the quotation marks encompassing the first paragraph. This is a quote of JFlosum, posted March 30, 2003.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2003 6:37 pm 
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Dagger, that is just plain bs!

And they are not only U.S. sanctions, they are U.N. sanctions and they allow for all the food and medicine they need. But Saddam does not want them to have food and medicine. He just recently rejected the UN’s move to supply much needed food and water for oil program that was curtailed by the UN against Bushes pleading not to do so. Saddam or his minions speaking on his behalf flatly rejected the idea and further scoffed at the idea saying there were a rich and prosperous county and did not need anyone’s help.

You need to get the facts before you attack you own country.

Even before the war Iraq has been able to sell all the oil it has needed to supply their people with food and medicine. Saddam and his sons all have billions of dollars holed away in a number of different countries. That has been well documented.

Again I remind you of Saddam’s statement of Iraq having 25 million people but “we only need 5 (million).”


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2003 10:37 pm 
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At this point it is purely academic as to Bush being able to justifiy the war; he can't, legally or otherwise. Meanwhile it will go on.

I saw a glowing report tonight on the news (on one of those "left" biased channels) of a U.S. nurse holding a baby whose legs had been damaged by shrapnel and whose parents had been killed in a bombing. It portrayed the U.S as winning the hearts and minds of the people and offering the great promise of democracy.

I saw a lot of those reports on the news - in 1967 (maybe not in 1968), 1969 (renewed optimism), 1970, 1971, 1972-1973 (Vietnamization of the War). Give me one reason why I should swallow this crap now!

Curiously Bush is doing his best behind the scenes to remove the democratically elected leader of Venezuela. He doesn't give a **** about democracy.

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