school age kids enjoy going to the skate park with their friends after school. Lately I have noticed they smell like cigarette smoke when they come home -they told me that kids smoke down there all the time. I have had the oppurtunity to observe it - I stopped to talk with some children there & was enveloped by smoke as I sat in my vehicle & talked to them. A group sits on the bench & smokes & they are kids. Is there anything we can do about this?

The answer is YES!!

But if you suggest, tell, or try to convince these kids into not smoking anymore it will only encourage them to smoke more.

The ONLY way to make the skate park smoke free is to ban the little buggers from being there in the first place.

No kids allowed !!! Kick 'em all out....and keep 'em out.

What the h*** are they doing hanging around the skate park anyway? They should be home studying!!

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Ken Martell
kenmartell@gmail.com
Thankful to be alive and healthy. Proud to call Tomahawk my hometown.

that's all well & good Ken, but my kids are alllowed to go when homework is done - all wolrk & no play? Needless to say, since I found out about this issue, I only let the kids go there when I check it first. I am lucky that I only live a block away, so I can check on them. The point is this - kids are limited to what they can do for fun around here & it is too bad that something like this needs to be potentially ruined by 16-18 yr olds smoking. how sad.

You would probably have more luck getting this problem taken care of by complaining to the local authorities than on a message board. They could then keep an eye on the place and discourage this activity.

_________________
God and the Soldier we all adore,
In times of trouble and then no more
when war is over and all things righted
God is forgotten, the old soldier Slighted.

Hi Logic1,

When I was a kid growing up in Tomahawk we used to use the 'ice rink' that the city built each winter in Pride Park. To my recollection the wind was blowing hard enough that if anyone was smoking the smoke would have been dissipated to the point of hardly being noticed. Also, just the fact that you're skating and moving around would make you a hard target for the carcinogens to hit.

Now, when we went to the small warm-up hut to unfreeze our feet that was a different matter. I can't remember anyone ever smoking but we could sure smell the booze in the air from the breath of Wish-wash, the nickname we gave to the attendant that the city provided to keep the hut from burning down and to keep us kids from killing each other (do you remember him?).

So, in our case I doubt that any second hand smoke would have made a lick of difference.

Is the current skating rink indoors or outdoors? If it's outdoors then I don't think you have a case. Skating, by nature, doesn't keep you closely grouped. So anyone not smoking would hardly be around a smoker for more than a few seconds.

If the rink is indoors that may be a different matter. Maybe you have a case.

I would like to hear more about just how bad it is for the smokers versus non-smokers at the rink. Is there any ventilation in the building? If there was a smoking section would that work? How close and how long do you need to be around the smokers at the rink to come home smelling like them? Rinks are fairly large structures...so it would be easy not to be around someone that you didn't want to be around. Are your kids hanging around the smokers so that they pick up the smell so easily?

btw...I'm not a smoker and I think it's a creepy, yucky, dangerous, stupid and smelly thing to do. But I think that common sense should be used here. If you really think that your kids are forced to be around the smokers and inhale their second hand smoke than by all means find a solution to keep them smoke free. But if they, by choice, hang around the smokers than maybe they can be educated. And if all of this is taking place outdoors...tell them to keep moving. And even if it's indoors...tell them to keep moving. And when you talked to those smokers while in your car you should have kept the windows closed and talked to them with your cell phone

I would like to hear more.....

_________________
Ken Martell
kenmartell@gmail.com
Thankful to be alive and healthy. Proud to call Tomahawk my hometown.

Ken, my mistake - I am referring to the local skate boarding park that was set up for the kids to use - has ramps - is outdoors, surrounded by a chain link fence - actually it is in the SW corner of Pride Park. Old Scout, you are right - I will make the authorities aware of it - I was just asking the board to see if you agree that this is an issue to be concerned about as a community. thanks guys...

Oh well, what the hay. I was feeling the need to pontificate and jumped at the chance even though I wasn’t anywhere near the subject. I feel like Rosanne Rosanna-Rosanna Danna (Gilda Radner) from the old Saturday Night Live episodes. NEVER MIND!!!! But it felt good to make some noise.

Seriously…is it against the law for those kids to smoke? I know in California it’s against the law to sell cigarettes to anyone under 18 but the loophole is it’s not against the law for them to smoke (I think).

What do you think the authorities can/will do?

_________________
Ken Martell
kenmartell@gmail.com
Thankful to be alive and healthy. Proud to call Tomahawk my hometown.

I was under the impression that sales to or possession by anyone under 18 of tobacco products was illegal. I know the police like to run sting operations on local business to make sure that they are checking ID's. If only they could do as much to keep drugs off the streets. For most kids it is easier to get drugs than cigarettes.

_________________
God and the Soldier we all adore,
In times of trouble and then no more
when war is over and all things righted
God is forgotten, the old soldier Slighted.

For most kids it is easier to get drugs than cigarettes

that is so the truth... and yet they spend millions on advertisment, and tax dollars, for law enforcement to control a teenager puffing on a cig,,,,rather than spending it on the drugs that are more accesable (spl ?<< ah) to our youts..... but that is going along with the big ban to stop smoking, but.. obviously the youts have easier access to drugs, so they focus on the teen smokers rather that the teen meth users,,, any sense to that????

_________________
Take care of yourselves and each other.

Not to go on a rant, but so a few teenagers are having a few cigs at the skate park,,, whooopideedooo....!!! at least there have been no reports of any kids shooting up or smoking crack,,,,, pick the battles win the wars//// what do you think that goes on at a skate park in a big city,,,, i guarantee (spl ) you that the concerned citizens wish it was only some kids smoking a cig,,,,,,, ...................

_________________
Take care of yourselves and each other.

pac-man, you missed the point I tried to make. I really was talking about the kids smoking with younger kids being there - not the legal issue. Just why the younger kids need to be subjected to it in a park that is meant for them to have fun at.

logic I agree with you something should be done about that and yes something should be said to the athorities but not the tomahawk ones. in my opinion they are useless most of the time when some one has been in trouble many time they just slap them on the had and send them on their way, then when it comes down to someone who really made a mistake they come down hard on them. so to help stop the smoking the best choise would be to try to contact the county department avout it beside with alot of the kids having frinds that work at the gas stations they will still be able to obtain the cigerretes. I won't be until we are able to crack down on the gas stations and other vendors that the smoking problem will stop. I feel sorry for all the younger kids who are there and have to see what is going on there.

Logic, I certainly mean no offense, but I will be completely honest with you about this.

I don't know how old your kids are, but initially, I would like to ask you... did your kids come home and literally complain to you that "they like to go to the skatepark, but there is cigarette smoke that they don't want to be exposed to"?
Or did they come home reeking of smoke, and this was the reason they gave when you asked them about it?

Next, I ask you to consider and understand the possibility that the skate park itself is not the Rosie Family-Friendly playground that you seem to believe it is.

The fact exists that- Rather than a gathering-grounds for children of all ages to congregate and socialize, this skate-park was constructed specifically with the intention of giving 'young adults who statistically cause problems because of their hobby', a place to go as an alternative to disrupting and disturbing the public in general.

Is there anything wrong with skating?
Absolutely not.
Are people who skate-board, necessarily "bad"? Absolutely not.

But it's still not an age-less "social melting pot" of any sort.
The odds are that if "the older kids who smoke" decided to go across the street to smoke, your kids (and many others) would still come home smelling like an ashtray.

Like I said, I really mean no offense here at all... but perhaps your kids choosing to be in that particular company is a bigger issue than their subjecting themselves to second-hand smoke is.

<small>[ October 28, 2007, 01:09 AM: Message edited by: abnerman ]</small>

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The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese....

no offense taken, but you are barking up the wrong tree. My children are 12. They hang around with a group of kids that DO NOT pose problems - all these kids are stand outs in their class & just want to get together to skate board - my one son in particular does not even like the go there unless it isn't crowded. Yes, they came home smelling like an ashtray so I asked. The kids that do hang there & smoke are (no good way to say this) a less desirable crowd. So yes, it is now limited when they do go & that is THE shame of the situation. Well, hockey starts now so that is good - can't wait!!!

logic1, to me you sound a bit harsh referring to certain kids that use the skate park as "less than desirable". For all you know parents of these kids might frequent this message board. We all want to think that our kids are of an elite group. We all want to think that are kids are the "good" kids. Even good kids at any age will try different things. Are you saying from hard fact that these less than desirable kids pose problems or is it just by the fact that they smoke and may have different interests than your kids. "Good" kids smoke too, unfortunately, they have picked up a very bad habit. The same kids most likely come from good homes. Sad, but true, the fact that they smoke maybe the most remote possiblitly in the minds of their parents. We've all been there when it comes to our children, not entertaining the thought that our children could be doing something less than desirable.

<small>[ October 28, 2007, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: Deb Richardson ]</small>

_________________
Life is too short for drama & petty things!
So, laugh insanely, love truly and forgive quickly!

like I said, there was no gentle way to say it. No, I do not think any certain kid is better than the kids next door, but the activities they choose to do does reflect on their peers. In a perfect world, we would all be "wonderful & desireable" to everyone else. I wish we had that perfect world. Do not turn this into a "bashing" because it is not meant to be.

I don't believe I'm the one that turned this thread into bashing. It may not have been meant to come across in that manner, however it did. What is reflected here is judging others without knowing the person. You did not answer my question are these kids that smoke while hanging at the skake park proven kids that pose problems? Or is that just your assumption because they do smoke and don't share the interest that your kids have in hockey?

I agree with you 100% these kids don't need to be smoking at the skate part. They are breaking the law.

After rereading your last post I see the bigger picture. Your kids like to skate and because there are kids that smoke at the park you are afraid that your kids will be lumped into the "less desirable crowd". Hmm interesting. Guess I wouldn't worry about it as long as your kids aren't smoking. If you know in your heart of hearts that your kids aren't smoking then hold your head high and say "Yes my kids use the skate park!"

<small>[ October 28, 2007, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: Deb Richardson ]</small>

_________________
Life is too short for drama & petty things!
So, laugh insanely, love truly and forgive quickly!

You did not answer my question are these kids that smoke while hanging at the skake park proven kids that pose problems? (you never asked a question????? You basically just jumped on the fact that I mentioned "undesireable kids" basically meaning kids that need a little more guidance, believe me my children need guidance too just like all kids. BUT there is a difference in how the guidance is administered. Yes, we have all been down that road, just some learn from it.

If I were a parent of a child that frequents the skate park after reading your post I would feel that you indeed think your child better than mine and indeed you think my child is an undesirable bad person. I would not interrupt in any way that you were suggesting my child needed guidance. The word guidance or reference to needing guidance was never mentioned in your post.

BTW here's, although not obviously stated as one, my question from the previous post. (Please reread my previous post, I think I may have been editing when you posted.)

"Are you saying from hard fact that these less than desirable kids pose problems or is it just by the fact that they smoke and may have different interests than your kids."

Also by saying that there is a difference in how guidance is administered, (because my child may smoke at the skate park or smoke at all) I would interrupt that to mean you feel superior in your parenting. If this is not what you meant at all I think you may wish to restate your views. Just my humble miss guided, misadministered opinion.

<small>[ October 28, 2007, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: Deb Richardson ]</small>

_________________
Life is too short for drama & petty things!
So, laugh insanely, love truly and forgive quickly!

just so you know Deb, I am not speaking of any other children at the park - the problem is from young adults that frequent it. It is my hopes that they would know better & at least not make any disruptive scene (not saying that it HAS happened)during the times they are there or at least keep things more age orientated. I am sorry you feel you need to be agrumentative but that is the furthest thing from what I intended to happen, I, as a concerned parent , am just trying to look out for the best interest of our children.

Reread your initial post logic1, you say "children" and "kids". You do not refer to young adults. So which is it, who is doing the smoking? I am not being argumentative at all, just pointing out that I felt your labeling of some of the kids at the skate park as less desirable was harsh. You are to be commended for wanting a healthy enviroment for your children's leisure time, I'm sure we are in agreement on that.I wanted the same for my kids when they were growing up in Tomahawk. I also feel that you don't want your children possibly viewed as part of the same crowd your refer to as less desirable. None of us want others to view are children in a negative light, however let me restate that if I were the parent of one of these individuals (be it younger teen or young adult) I would be terribly hurt if I were to read your post labeling my child as less desirable.

I totally understand and agree with the smoking issue.

_________________
Life is too short for drama & petty things!
So, laugh insanely, love truly and forgive quickly!

this is a line from my second post - answer to my first) The point is this - kids are limited to what they can do for fun around here & it is too bad that something like this needs to be potentially ruined by 16-18 yr olds smoking. how sad.
I did refer to them as older children & yng adults. I am not saying that the kids that go there are all necessarily bad, we ALL have our moments. Just that it would be nice if things could all work out (once again - that perfect world we would all like.

<small>[ October 29, 2007, 06:35 AM: Message edited by: logic1 ]</small>

Regardless if these are young teens, young adults, or adults your labeling of the smokers at the skate park as "less desirable crowd" is offensive to me. You did not respond to my question are you calling them this because they smoke or do you know for a fact that they cause problems. Again, I have to say that if the people you make reference to as less desirable were my family members I would find it very hurtful.

<small>[ October 29, 2007, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Deb Richardson ]</small>

_________________
Life is too short for drama & petty things!
So, laugh insanely, love truly and forgive quickly!

first of all, I am not calling them undesireable due to smoking. (I really did not mean that as a social disease it was meant to be a point of discussion - I do not know how else to put it - it really was not meant to be hurtful-I know it was)) it is a combination of things, - I certainly am sorry for how this balloned - I do not feel that my kids are better than others, I just think kids need to be more responsible about what they do and also think more of their friends.

hello everyone, i know my appearances are few and far between, but upon my return to the wonderful world of tomahawk leader, this caught my eye, and ive been following it all day.

a bit of input from someone with actual experience? considering i only graduated highschool about a year and a half ago, i should know, i was a frequent at the skate park for my high school/ post high school years.

one of the things i can safely comment on is that yes, a lot of young people smoke at the skate park. more than anyone really knows.

in my experience, the authorities have about a 5% chance of catching any underage smoker. kids are smarter than they are given credit for, and know exactly how not to get caught. i pulled the "it was my friends who smoke" line so many times with my parents it should be out of style, and they bought it nearly every single time. do you know why? because it works. parents want to trust their kids.

in order to "reek like an ashtray" you would have to be in a very close proximity to those who are actually smoking, or be doing it yourself. smoke does not travel far before it is dissipated, although the non-smokers nose can pick up on the scent as if it was lit in front of them.

it is a shame what cigarettes are and do, and anti-smoking policies arent going to stop anybody. they havent yet, have they?

i do smoke, but am working towards quitting (not easy as a Marine). my grandfather passed away a short time ago due to lung cancer, and it hits home when something like that happens. i dont want to have my kids see me someday like i saw him. the physical reduction of him was overwhelming.

the fact is that unless kids are absolutely chained down, they are going to do what they want to do, either from spite, peer pressure, because its "fun", as an escape or a crutch (ie stress relief), or just simply to fit in.

all any parent can do is have faith in how they raised their kids.

my parents have with me, and now i am a Lance Corporal in the United States Marine Corps (soon to be Corporal). regardless of how i or anyone was as a teen or in school, the values the parents themselves practice will show through their kids. 100%, without a doubt.

your kids are a reflection of you and your ideals.

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“Some people live an entire lifetime and wonder if they have made a difference to the world, but the Marines don’t have that problem.” - Ronald Reagan