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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:00 am 
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How is this for opening a can of worms? If the ban passes I may go look for work in Rhinelander!!!!!!!! What a great thing in my opinion. To not be forced to breath other peoples smoke!!! To not have to smell the stench. I do not care if people want to smoke,I just have a problem with them exhaling that smoke into the air I share with them. I have chosen not to smoke myself and have a problem with others sharing their smoke with me. I have changed my life style, I only go to smoke free restaraunts, smoke free shops, etc. I find it almost funny that employers would fight this. I suppose it is the force thing again. They should have a right to force their employees to breath the smoke. The money they could save on health costs, sick days, they would even save money on cleaning products and air cleaners, I could go on but I am sure you all get the point. Do smokers not realize that they can be smelt from a distance? It is worse then if they did not use any personal hygiene products, such as deoderant or tooth paste. Second hand smoke does kill. My son asked me a question once that maybe readers have an answer for because I could not answer his question. It was "If killing someone, and you know and willing are killing someone, that is murder, right? Then how come smokers can kill so many people with second hand smoke and not be held responsable?" That question came out of the mouth of a babe at the time. I could not come up with an intelligent or plausible answer for him. To this day, about 12 years later, I still have no answer for that question.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:17 am 
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I love being able to go out to the bars with friends in Appleton and not stink when we come home (they passed a full workplace ban that the bars are trying to overturn).

Many of the bars and restaurants are trying to reverse some of it now claiming that their business is down. The sad thing is I know more people going out now because it is smoke free than I do who left. The bars that are getting hit typically weren't doing well in the first place and they refuse to do anything different to try and get some new people in the place. A couple of places have advertised and done some new promotions and are saying business is up.

If Appleton's ban is changed I know a lot of people that are going to make their point with their wallet.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:31 am 
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There is nothing more unappealing then sitting down in an establishment to eat & having someone next to you light up. For one thing it is rude. It stinks the whole area up. If eating places insist on having smoking in there place, they need to ban it from the dining rooms at least. Being a reformed smoker of six years I realize how offensive it is to others. The smoker has an odor that lingers with them. It is offensive to even talk to them. There are very few bars I do go into because of the smoking issue. Some bars are absolutely horrible to walk into-everyone is smoking!! My father quit smoking roughly 14 years ago, he is now on oxygen 100% of the time due to smoking. Do people not even realize the danger? I can't wait for the day that smoking is banned in all public places. Not smelling like smoke when you leave somewhere after going to dinner or drinks would be a God send!!!! :p


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:55 pm 
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I was in Oshkosh last weekend and was so surprised to find out that one of my favorite restaraunts was smoke free. It had a bar and it was just a busy as ever. I wish Tomahawk would think about a work place smoking ban!!!!!!!!!!! Then at least I could go out to a bar. They get NONE of my money in the bars in this town. Only the liquor store, it is smoke free. I can smell a smoker 10 feet away. My work area is suposed to be smoke free except the dumb asses put it down just before they walk in and exhale in my room. When I tell them to not exhale near me their response is, and I quote, "whats the matter it is only a little cigerette?" I tell them "I have no problem with you sucking in poison, I have a problem with you sharing it with me, now OUT of my work area!" And, Yes, they do leave.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:04 pm 
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The business owner should have the right to establish the rules in his or her place of business. Customers who don't like the atmosphere or the company are always free to go elsewhere. Workplace arrangements offer a similar choice. There are far too many restrictions already on businesses without throwing yet another one into the mix. I don't smoke, and I really don't like to be in a smokey environment either, but I don't need another law to solve the problem for me.....I just get up and walk out.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:02 pm 
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kudos Dave. couldnt have said it better myself. I enjoy the right to choose not to go to a smokey bar, I cannot favor a law telling everybody else that they cannot smoke.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:17 pm 
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I had a very wise professor that I respect very much (and apparently others did too since he was on the board of a variety of companies) who made the argument that any law passed affecting business is simply due to businesses failing to do the right thing themselves.

At the time I questioned this but over the course of the 4 years since then and looking at multiple examples I have to agree with him. Because of Enron we now have SOX (Sarbaines-Oxley or something like that, it's a major pain), etc.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:50 am 
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So in other words if a bus. wants to, oh lets say, pay their employees $2.50 an hour instead of min. wage that should be their choice? Or lets see, feed them rat poison, alittle at a time, that should be the employers choice? (there is arsnic in cancer sticks!!!) One more, they should have the choice to have employees breath second hand smoke and slowly poison the employees? The smoking ban to me would be kind of like the seat belt law. We should not have to have a seat belt law, it is common (uncommon)sense to wear one, however some people cannot or will not see the wisdom in it, so government tries to protect them from themselves. All this law will do is protect nonsmokers from smokers, who do not care or have any consideration for the nonsmokers around them. Smoke in your car or at home!!!!!!! Oh my gosh, I only want to breath clean air.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 9:04 am 
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Quote:
Originally posted by nugget:
SAll this law will do is [b]protect nonsmokers from smokers, who do not care or have any consideration for the nonsmokers around them. Smoke in your car or at home!!!!!!! Oh my gosh, I only want to breath clean air.[/b]
Exactly. And why do the 70 to 80% of the population who do not smoke have to cater to the 20 to 30% of the population who do smoke? It makes no sense from a public health point of view.

I wasn't aware that there are still places of work where people can smoke. I don't think there is a law in MN for businesses regarding smoking but I know all major employers do not allow smoking in the workplace. At my place of employment workplace smoking was banned about 20 years ago. There is a law that schools cannot allow smoking in schools or on school property. Smokers have to go to a public sidewalk to smoke. Hospitals do not allow smoking on their property either, by choice, no law.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:01 am 
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I agree ......people & business owners should be more aware of ALL customers needs & wants not just the smokers that want to complain that they are being targeted. Use common sense & cater to all. Smoking if very offensive & not a welcome thing anymore. I think the only time it will be a issue around here is once it gets out of hand. I have noticed the tables turning (somewhat) to the majority of people being non smokers instead of the majority being smokers - I hope the trend will become more common place. I do not know of many work places that allow smoking at work, unless it is a tavern or a restuarant. (that is bad enough). Also, it is awful when you see a group of people standing outside by a doorway to an establishment smoking. At least you know they can't smoke inside, but you have to walk through a cloud to get in! I know this is another issue. Such as some one smoking at a sporting event, in the bleachers, around the other parents (and children) sitting there. Sorry folks, but this boils down to common courtesy (& common sense) also. Let's just be a little more aware of EVERYONE instead of just yourself.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:18 am 
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I really have to laugh at the posters on this board. The same ones that are saying how terrible it is to ban gay marriage to protect the minorities think it is fine to ban smoking and discriminate against that minority. A bit of a double standard ? :roll: :confused:

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:47 am 
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Interesting point....and also very true. They will, of course, claim that the two issues are completely different even though they really are not.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:21 am 
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A gay marriage does not put poison in my, my childern and grandchilderns lungs! It does not slowly kill the people that are in the same area as the gay couple. It does not leave and unbarable stench in the air and on my clothes and hair. I am not thumping a bible pushing my interpretation on someone else. I just want to breath air without cigerette smoke. I have to hold my breath when walking past smokers. They do not hold the smoke in until I pass, they exhale it for everyone around them. :eek: What you do in your home is your business. I know second hand smoke causes death, slow, painful, death. I have been at the side of someone who has died because of second hand smoke, it was a long, very painful and expensive way to die. My friend had never had a cig. touch his lips. It was all second hand smoke. The treatments alone that my friend had to go through to try to live longer were horrible. At the end we both wished for his death. All because of the selfishness of smokers. I do not care if they kill themselves. The sooner the better! That way their smoke will not touch anyone else. If there is a way to keep the ones I love from that kind of death, I will!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:45 am 
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As I posted in the gay marriage thread... Exactly what physical or economic harm does allowing gay marriage cause ME or ANYONE else? Smoke and second-hand smoke however are PROVEN to cause me both physical and economic harm.

Facts:

Smoking and second-hand smoke causes cancer!
Cancer can and does kill.
Drinking CAN lead to problems but not always (therefore different laws and restrictions).
Failure to wear your seatbelt causes increased injuries (causing me economic harm since we help diffuse the related costs)
Gay marriage leads to what? A moral debate?

If you can show me an orange that looks and tastes like an apple then we can start comparing them.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:01 pm 
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I'm still laughing at your Holier than thou atitude. :D

Just out of curiosity, do people that don't smoke also never go anywhere that there might be exhaust fumes in the air, work where there might be chemical fumes in the air, or any kind of dust. Hmmm. :p

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:30 pm 
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That is one reason I live in the country and in the northwoods. I try to avoid all of the above mentioned. A good indicator is lichen, it can not grow where the air is polluted. Do you smoke Old Scout?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 5:08 pm 
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Lets add another twist to this discussion. How many of you are over weight by the national standard? I would be willing to say at least 60%. Now take a look at the companies that have banned smokers from working for them and ask yourself how long before they ban you for being overweight. The reasoning that they do this is for health care cost and productivity you could use that same reasoning on people that are overweight. What are you going to do when the place you work for starts telling you what you can and can not eat?
I do however agree with smoke free reasturaunts and some smoke free bars. I also think that smokers do need to be more concious of nonsmokers and smoke outside at work and other public places. We are starting to turn our country into a dictatorship for our own good some how. :confused:
Yes I am a smoker.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:34 pm 
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I'll hit a few points.

1. I'm definitely not overweight.

2. Being overweight can be a medical condition. Smoking is a choice. Also, again (outside of higher medical costs, sitting on me or the people who don't realize they just shouldn't be wearing some things and the mental anguished cause by seeing it) being overweight is not harmful to me. The same point was brought up when my company started charging a fee to smokers for health insurance. They CAN'T charge for being overweight.

3. Many areas also regulate exhaust fumes. Your car must have a catalytic converter and in many places you have to pass a test annually to be able to put your car on the road. Businesses also must pass tests in many cases.

4. Chemical fumes and dust can also be regulated. You also have to have the material safety sheets for every chemical you have at your business (at least the last 3 places I worked were required to). If the work environment makes someone sick they will investigate it.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:16 pm 
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Kerry, I don't know what kind of utopian world you think you live in but you need to look at the cold hard facts of life.

Have you never heard the word "SMOG" ? Have you never driven down a dusty road, have you never used chemicals to do some work around the house,(paint thinner, cleaning fluid etc.)? Have you never seen the dirt that remains on your car after it rains (it was all in the air before it rained)? You can regulate all you want but you are still exposed to all kinds of pollution every day of your life. Smoking may be a contributing factor in some cases but when the experts claim it is the main reason they fail to take into consideration that living on the planet earth is hazzardous to your health. Unless you plan on living in a bubble you are risking breathing in something that can hurt you.

"They CAN'T charge for being overweight." Never say never or can't. It can come back to haunt you! :D

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:27 pm 
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(No, I don't smoke.)

If you dont like eating in a smoking establishment, go somewhere else. If you dont like working in a smoking establishment, get a different job. Why should people cater to nonsmokers?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:12 pm 
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it's not catering to non smokers, it is catering to everyone. Smoking is a nusiance & people should not have to cope with it just because some choose to do it. Bottom line (in my opinion) is courtesy & regards for others. If you feel the need to :roll: smoke, do it on your own time & not in the company of others that DO NOT chose to do it.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:38 pm 
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I don't drink, Perhaps we should ban all drinking in public establishments so I don't have to put up with all those obnoxious drunks. It is really irritating when you are out for dinner and some fool who has one too many is acting like a total idiot. Why should we have to put up with a small minority who chose to drink in public and annoy the rest of us and then put our life at risk when they drive home or worse to the next bar.

Yes I think I will start a campaign to ban public drinking. Let me think, what else can we pass a law to ban? There must be something I don't like. :p

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:39 am 
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I guess that answers the question posted a few post ago "do you smoke Old Scout?" Just wondering how you would feel if you didn't smoke? Would you like the smoke in your face? in your space when you have chosen not to smoke?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:29 am 
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Quote:
Originally posted by JayOMF:
(No, I don't smoke.)

Why should people cater to nonsmokers?
Only 20 to 30% of the population smokes. If they want to commit slow suicide that is their choice but no smoker has the right to force others to breath their second hand smoke.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:52 am 
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Second hand smoke KILLS, it is a very painful and slow death! Aparently no one has an answer to the quetion my son asked years ago. It is in the opening post. People know second hand smoke kills others and smokers still insist on sharing their smoke with others. That is intentional! They exhale. Every time they make me breath their smoke they are saying to me, "Die, I am going to help you DIE a long, slow and painful death." :eek: :confused: I do not even know them or them me. Suicide is one thing murder is another.

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