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The Tomahawk Leader is a state and national prize-winning weekly newspaper serving the scenic Northwoods area in and around Tomahawk, WI.

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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:01 pm 
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Well how do you like that? Two Teen-aged Ninja Retards. Hope some of the vets have had Ninja training, just in case they might run into these two in person some day or some night. You know, we've talked about this on other threads here, about a slap on the hand and a few months probation not being enough of a message, that we'll not tolerate these actions. I do believe some extra-curricular "ninja" training would indelibly imprint the training, on their and their copy-catters brains. Thanks to the citizen that was on the ball and called it in.


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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:20 pm 
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CATFISH
I didnt realize they were retarded..I think you are wrong, I dont think mentaly challenged people would do such a thing...anyway poor choice of words.


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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:32 pm 
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........."Tilt" !!!


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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:15 pm 
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Where did these 'Ninjas' get their training??? Out of a comic book!!! To be caught with all the flags makes it really easy to wrap up this case. Thanks to the citizen who spotted and reported these rocket-scientists-in-ski-masks and to the Police for the capture. I hope this solves this crime.

Now....what do we do with them? What will be the fall out to their families and friends? Now the really ugliness of this crime begins...

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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:54 pm 
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Glad to hear or read that the flag theives have been caught. It renews your faith in humankind when someone steps forward to report what they have seen.

Catfish, tsk, tsk, I guess we could say you pulled an "Imus"!

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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:32 am 
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What I would like to know is what are kids that age doing out that time of night? Where are the parents ? ? They are as much to blame as the kids !!!!
I really wish just once that people wouldn't jump to blame the Parents of Young perps. According to this morning's news, at least one of the parents is in Iraq.

God Bless

Peace


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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:34 am 
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this morning WJJQ reported that the 17yr old that was picked up, is the step son of Dean. If that is true I am sure Dean is sickened to hear it. I hope things get worked out.


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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:57 am 
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Firstly let me say that I am glad that the flags have been recovered and are soon to be back flying where they belong.

The news that John was one of those responsible for this did indeed hit me like a hammer blow to the chest. I still haven't fully recovered.

I love my son. I always have and I always will. However, when his mother and I started our divorce, it hurt him and he has not been able to come to terms with that hurt. For that I owe him a huge apology.

He is not responsible for the theft of the first flag. When he saw my name in the papers, being touted about as a hero, the pain I left him with exacerbated and this lead him to retaliate in a way he knew would be most hurtful to me. Unfortunately this was also hurtful to the community. For that I owe Tomahawk an apology.

I was one of the people screaming the loudest over the outrage of the flags being stolen; what I didn't realize was that the voice I was drowning out with my own rage was one I should have been listening to all along.

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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:25 am 
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My friend, you are not alone

Quote:
started our divorce, it hurt him and he has not been able to come to terms with that hurt. For that I owe him a huge apology
been there, done that. All I can tell you is, keep loving your son (of course, I don't need to tell you that) He WILL heal. Might take years, but have faith. He WILL heal.

Sending hugs & good thoughts your way

Peace


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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:22 pm 
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Dean, you do not owe the city of Tomahawk an apology. I'm sorry for your step-son's behavior.Kids in his situation will act out. Perhaps there is a military chaplain that you can talk with to help you through this troublesome time. Keep the faith man!

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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:40 pm 
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Medic,

As others have mentioned. You don't owe anything to us. You worry about taking care of yourself, your family and others over there.

At the same time, I still feel there will need to be some form of punishment. Just because the situation isn't what everyone expected doesn't mean people shouldn't be upset. I hope the punishment is something that everyone can agree is fair.

Kerry


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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:16 pm 
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it is extremely surprising to me to hear about the reasons for the flag thefts but, they should still both be punished. the message john tried to make was meant for dean but, in that he hurt an entire community. John's action are explained but what about **Name Removed** what were his motivations for being invloved? to dean i am sorry for your hurt and hope you can do some healing with your son

<small>[ April 12, 2007, 07:58 AM: Message edited by: Kerry Tobin ]</small>


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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:02 am 
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Dean don't take this all on yourself. You are far away and going through your own problems. You can't possibly know where your step-son is every minute when you are in a different country. John has a mother and she also needs to take some responsibility here - like allowing him, at 17 years old, to wander the streets at 2:00am!!

<small>[ April 12, 2007, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: surenough ]</small>


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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:31 pm 
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In My Opinion Its Not Dean's Fault at all. The kid has a brain, he knew exactly what he was doing. Dont Understand why he would do this but thats his decision. Obviously this kid has No Respect for His Country.


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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:44 pm 
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Quote:
Originally posted by MedicDVG:
http://www.waow.com/News/index.php?ID=10276

13 Flags!!! C'mon, someone HAS to know something. I have no idea who this miscreant is, but I want 10 minutes alone with them when it is found out who.

Well it looks like you will get your chance now.

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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:56 am 
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Gee thanks.. If you don't think I have been re-thinking everything I have said here, you are gravely mistaken.

I do wish that I had 10 minutes alone with John. Maybe we could have actually talked and this would have never happened.

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*** The opinions expressed herein are uniquely MY OWN and should not be construed as an endorsement of any sort by my employers or of any professional associations to which I hold membership. I can dig myself into holes just fine without their help, thank you very much***


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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:31 am 
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Dean, I am so sorry this took the turn it did. There are people on this board that DO have empathy & not mean things to say to you. Pac - man, I feel you need to practice some. I am sure this is not a situation that Dean thought he would ever be in. My thought are with him during this time.


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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:47 am 
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Hi Everybody,

While most of you do not know me, I have had a chance to talk with Dean regarding his very kind flag donation. Dean has won an award on my website for Patriot of the Month. Even with all that has happened recently with catching the ones responsible, does NOT change anything about who Dean is. From the little bit of time I talked with Dean via email, he is a great guy and still is regardless of any relation to the one(s) who stole the flags. Each and every person has their own brain in order to make their own decisions. Dean's decision to donate a flag made the Tomahawk area very proud to have him a part of the community. He is still the same person and I honestly hope that nobody has changed their opinion of who "Dean" is.

While I do understand that Dean has plenty to deal with each and every day, I am sure that he will do the best at helping his son understand what the flag really means to the community and the hurt that it caused everybody.

One thing to think about though. Even though Dean is overseas serving our country, I am confident that something will be said to the youngster regarding this matter. Which is alot more than some of the young people's parents seem to do in this day and age.

To Dean, I have to give you another "Thanks" from me. After I was interviewed regarding the Patriot of the Month award I was giving to you and it was aired on WSAW, I was constantly noticed by the local people in my area. They were a deciding factor in the extension of the award, asking me to keep your touching story on the site longer than 30 days, and yes you are still listed there. We are all proud of you and thankfull we have you as a part of our Country. If possible, let me know when you arrive back home. I would like to shake your hand and tell you thanks in person.

Thanks,
Matt

P.S. I hope that the Patriotism around Tomahawk does not fade since the police made an arrest. Let us not forget those in the Military serving our Country and the countless non-Military people overseas doing what they can to preserve our freedom and help others gain freedom themselves. Patriotism can be contagious, lets spread it around to others.


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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:30 pm 
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Matt, thanks for your posting. I found your web site last week when searching for news of the stolen Flags. I'll list it here since you didn't...for others to see:
http://www.twfsales.com/index.php?main_page=patriot

Yes, this whole subject has taken the strangest twist possible. I also agree with you with your opinion of Dean. His postings have said volumes about him and I don't doubt for a moment that he is the good person he seems to be.

With 20/20 hindsight I'm sure there are things Dean might have done different with respect to his relationship with John but as Arizay said a couple days ago..."My friend, you are not alone, been there, done that." None of us are anything near perfect....good people just do the best they can and learn from their 'mistakes'....and try to do better in the future.

I can't forgive John or the other guy involved with the stolen Flags...yet. I want a fair punishment for them along with a lesson learned. What that will or should be I don't know yet. The ideas being tossed around including some community service with apologies to the community and, specifically, to the people who had their Flags stolen, sounds like a good start.

Dean, as Deb said you don't own anyone an apology. You need to take care of yourself (and sorry about referring to you in the third person above...I know you're here).

This is going to be an interesting time for ALL of us on how we work through this calamity.

Tough times don't build character, tough times reveal it.

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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:18 pm 
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Your welcome Ken and thanks for adding the link. I hope that people check out the tribute to Dean on my site. Even though the tribute is on a flag sales site, not asking for any sales. Widespread Patriotism means alot more to me than making a sale.

Somebody mentioned in a previous post regarding how to identify a flag that was stolen. It is just a suggestion, how about using a permanent marker to place either owners name or some type of personal mark on the header of the flag. For those who do not know what the header is, it is the fabric that the pole sleeve or grommets are attached to. If anybody has other ideas on how to "personalize" a flag for identification, please share. Flags being stolen are not just a Tomahawk thing, it happens everywhere. My uncle even informed me that their POW/MIA flag was stolen from the local American Legion Post that he is a member of. I happily donated a new one and go figure, a week later that one was gone as well.

As far as my input on a fair but just punishment, maybe a real boot camp might help those few understand what that fabric when sewn into our flag means to those who will give their life to defend it. Another idea might be spending time with those who fought for this Country, listening to some of the war stories, good and bad. Maybe a mixture of both might be even better. Just my thoughts.

Hope everybody has a great weekend.

Matt R.


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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:04 am 
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Pass whatever judgement you want. If charges are pressed then a real judge, qualified in these matters, will make a ruling. Community service might be the ticket. However the real judgement/healing will take place between Dean and his son when Dean comes home.

Pac-man, consider yourself the winner of the "Mr. Obvious Award".

Jeff

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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:24 am 
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From Jeff Boettcher's posting:
"However the real judgement/healing will take place between Dean and his son when Dean comes home."

Amen to that brother !!!

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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 1:53 am 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Boettcher:
However the real judgement/healing will take place between Dean and his son when Dean comes home.
Not only will this be the most difficult, but it will also be the most rewarding.

<small>[ April 14, 2007, 01:55 AM: Message edited by: MedicDVG ]</small>

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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:38 pm 
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Apology for missing flags …

Dear Tomahawk Community,

We greatly apologize for the missing flags. We meant no harm to anyone personally but we shouldn’t have done it either way. There is no excuse for what we have done to the community and we do realize this and we’re ready to accept any consequences given. Again, we know we shouldn’t have ever attempted this act, we would not have done it if we knew that it would have hurt so many people. We plan to help the ones we hurt during this incident in any way possible. The reason we did this (is) because (personal family reason). We are angry about this. … This is the true reason for our actions and we hope from the bottom of our hearts that you can forgive us for doing this.

Sincerely,
John Kneipp
Jeremy Lang
Tomahawk

(Editor's note: This signed letter for publication was submitted by a youth pastor from a local church on behalf of the two teens.)


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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:20 pm 
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I don't know about the rest of the community, but I personally accept this apology and would offer my forgiveness. It is my fervent and sincere wish that someday John forgive me as well.

There will be consequences for this, as there should be. However, I think that we can't lose sight that John also states that he wishes to help those affected by his poor choice. I beg that we as a community show our compassion and let John at least have that opportunity to heal the hurt he feels as well as the hurt he caused Tomahawk.

I thank the community for the support I have felt overseas. I ask that same support for John and Jeremy as well.

Thank you,
Dean Goulet

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