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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:37 am 
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WELL IM SURE THAT SOME PEOPLE IN TOMAHAWK WILL TRY TO FORGIVE THEM. BUT THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO EARN THE TRUST OF TOMAHAWK CITIZENS. I HOPE THAT JUST BECAUSE THEY APOLOGIZED THAT THEY ARE OFF THE HOOK, THERE NEEDS TO BE CONSEQUENCES FOR THEIR ACTIONS.


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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:54 pm 
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A Letter to the Editor in the April 17 Tomahawk Leader:

Compassion not Condemnation
John Kneipp made a mistake.
Which one of us has not made a mistake?
Which one of us has not wished the mistake we made could have been undone?
Which one of us has not had that sinking feeling in our stomach from what we have done?

John felt betrayed.
Which one of us has not felt betrayed by a friend, family member, a community, a parent?
Which one of us has not felt like the world has “come to an end” as a result of our feeling of being betrayed?
Which one of us has not wanted to, or did, lash out at those who betrayed us, or hurt us?
John’s action hurt a lot of people.
Which one of us has not hurt a lot of people by our mistake? A friend? A family member? A community? A parent? The web of hurt from what John did is large and has been felt by the Tomahawk community and beyond.

John needs our compassion, not our condemnation.

And, which one of us will not “cast the first stone,” but will step forward to help a hurting young man who has made a mistake and needs the compassion of family, friends and community to learn from that mistake?

This is the teachable moment, for both John and the community. I hope and pray that family, friends and community can come together with compassion to show by example that the world does not come to an end with hurt and pain, that we can all learn that our actions touch a web of people, and that, in the end we can forgive and grow to be better people.

John is a good young man. John made a mistake. What can we do to help John work through that mistake and mature into a fine young man? My answer is: compassion not condemnation.

Are we ready and able as a community to take that step?

Dan Goulet
Grampa Dan to John, father of Dean
Stevens Point

<small>[ April 18, 2007, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: Tomahawk Leader ]</small>


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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:52 pm 
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Tomahawkin26,
Why the need to "shout" (All caps post)?? Every one here, including the two young men who ran the prank, agree that they should & will be held accountable.

Your mis-typed note is the only one that suggests that they should "get off the hook" with an apology. (Proof your posts before you submit them.)

Tilt??

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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:51 am 
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Glad to see that some have a change of heart when it comes to the punishment of these kids. A few of you were hinting at violence towards the kids prior to them being caught, as can be seen on the prior posts, you know who you are and what you said. I think Dean's father had a very good post, these were kids that made a mistake. I dont think a good beating on the kids after the fact would accomplish anything. Let them take their punishment through the legal aspects and let them get on with their lives. They are young and will hopefully have learned a valuable lesson.

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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:10 pm 
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Well excuse me. Next time i should guess no one is perfect in this world......Second i didnt mean to put it in caps. Again Excuse me.


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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:36 pm 
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I realize they are young but I dont buy the part of not knowing they were hurting so many people.
1 flag could be a mistake but 16? I dont think so. It was in newspapers, TV and this message board,and they didnt know
His own step father was ready to hang them untill he found out who it was.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:05 pm 
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Last edited by Dopey Dwarf on Mon May 25, 2009 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:48 pm 
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I stand by what I have said here in these pages. I was hurt, outraged, and angry over these thefts, as were we all.

I am proud that John has stepped up and admitted his responsibility and I am proud of the fact that he seeks to reconcile his actions with the community. I think this speaks volumes of his character and his ability to learn from his mistakes.

I also am proud of our veteran community for also expressing their willingness to reconcile with John. http://www.wjfw.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5855&Itemid=51

This will be my last post on the issue... I think I have said more then enough, both positive and negative, reference these recent events.

I am ever grateful to Tomahawk, and I am looking forward to seeing you all again in 275 or so days.

Thank you,
Dean Goulet
Balad, Iraq

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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:46 pm 
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Sorry Medic, I know you'd like to end this string, but I want to reply to a couple of jokers.

Quote:
Originally posted by Tomahawkin26:
Well excuse me. Next time i should guess no one is perfect in this world.
No, none of us are perfect. Yet there you were "yelling" for retribution. Your post stating that they shouldn't be let off the hook just because they apologized was already a consensus opinion on the board. None of us said that they should get off with an apology.

Dopey thinks I'm intolerant of informal posters. Well if you're trying to make a point, wouldn't make sense to make sure that what you put in the message board isn't exactly opposite to the point you're trying to make??

<small>[ April 19, 2007, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: Jeff Boettcher ]</small>

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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:17 am 
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I agree with redo2006 ,
one flag would be a mistake. They kept on taking flag after flag even after they heard how it was hurting people. They didn`t stop because they realized what they did was wrong. They stopped because they GOT CAUGHT! If they weren`t caught we`d still be talking about stolen flags!


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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:45 am 
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An beside all of the "apology" stuff, those were not "missing flags" as they stated in the apology letter,they were STOLEN flags.


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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:45 pm 
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Forgiveness, and compassion comes after they have been to court, and have served what-ever sentence the judge deems appropriate. Then they can look at getting on with their lives and asking for forgiveness. Hopefully they will have learned a lesson from this.

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Yesterday is History !
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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:10 pm 
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Quote:
Originally posted by pac-man:
Quote:
Originally posted by MedicDVG:
[b]http://www.waow.com/News/index.php?ID=10276

13 Flags!!! C'mon, someone HAS to know something. I have no idea who this miscreant is, but I want 10 minutes alone with them when it is found out who.

Well it looks like you will get your chance now.[/b]
Pac-Man, I think I owe you an apology. Originally I thought your post, quoted above, was sarcastic in nature. My "Mr. Obvious" label followed.

But after reading your latest post I realize that you were probably stating what I believed:
Here's an opportunity for the two of them to get an understanding of each other.

I am sorry for jumping to a faulty conclusion & putting it into print.

Jeff

<small>[ April 20, 2007, 11:17 PM: Message edited by: Jeff Boettcher ]</small>

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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:54 pm 
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First and foremost, I'm new to this message board, so I apologize in advance for any misspellings or wrong useage of "computer terminology"...
I've been reading this message board topic since it was posted...and I agree that 16 flags is not a mistake...it was a conscious decision that was followed through...I have to wonder if all would be talking about "Forgiveness" if the person who stole the flag was someone other than the step-son of Dean, who sent the flag from Iraq? I would hope so...but I think not. I believe both individuals need to be punished without a doubt by the court system...then of course they need to be dealt with by the parents...as a community we can say we forgive but I'm sure we won't forget the feelings we had when the flags were stolen. Forgiveness is something we as individuals will have to do for ourselves..
As for typing errors, I have to defend Tomahawkin26, I know he's new to the site and very prideful of what the flag means to him, as his dad and 3 aunts all served in the military, and 1 aunt happens to be in Afghanistan at this time...he meant no harm...just got a little passionate...


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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:51 am 
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To Jeff, "Hello Mr. Obvious? First time caller long time listener." I don't think you were the only one that, at first reading, thought pac-man's post was sarcastic, however after a little re-reading and re-thinking I hadn't recalled any mean spirited posts from pac-man in the past. I'm sure that the community of Tomahawk is happy to lay this (and other news happenings) to rest. Once again all is well for Wally and the Beav.

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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:54 pm 
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Jeff, I agree with you about revising your initial assessment of what Pac-man said...

Rather than negatively sarcastic, I saw it as an honest, literal comment.
The context of Dean's original post is what made it sound sarcastic, as that statement was originally not meant in a "civil" context.

(For the record I am personally glad that since this mystery has been solved, certain people are no longer calling for rogue justice.. regardless of who was responsible for the crimes.)

<small>[ April 23, 2007, 08:55 PM: Message edited by: abnerman ]</small>

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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 2:58 pm 
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I heard on the news this morning that another flag was stolen last night. Looks like we either have a copy-cat or someone that thinks they can get away with it better than the last two. Might have to start another reward. :mad:

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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 8:07 pm 
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If what you heard is true, and I hope somehow it isn't, it really pi*ses me off that this is happening again!!

If another reward is a way that I can help, count me in. Please post the information again when/if the fund is set up.

As draining as this Flag theft issue is we can't let it happen without trying to get to the bottom of it and doing whatever we can to end it. In my mind it's not something that can be ignored...

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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 7:51 pm 
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Quote:
If another reward is a way that I can help, count me in.
I debated posting it, but someone recently mentioned to me the sheer irony of the fact that so many people jumped at the opportunity to invest their money as a reward for information pertaining to the culprit that had stolen flags...... while there was a vicious, unsolved murder in Tomahawk that was in need of solving.

I won't downplay the importance of patriotism..

But I will agree that I was surprised that what amounts to stolen symbolic fabric.. seemed to be much more worthy of private funding than solving a senseless and tragic murder was.

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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 12:07 am 
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Abnerman raises some interesting points. I had a similar discussion with a friend of mine concerning the amount of attention 'we' were giving to the stolen Flags and why didn't we put that much energy and interest in say dealing with solving how to deal with the war in Iraq or solving Aids or cancer.

When I first read your posting I was all set to give some logical arguments about why I backed the reward idea and why I didn't even think of a reward when the homicide was discovered. But I don't think logic comes into play when making some decisions that tug at the heart.

For instance...when Katrina happened I contacted the Red Cross, took some of their classes, and was all set to be deployed to help the homeless in Louisiana. But you know what...I have never for a moment thought about volunteering my time to help the homeless in the area where I live. And in hindsight I should have.

Why can I easily watch a TV show that shows people being machine gunned but I can’t watch the Animal Planet show when they show little malnourished puppies being ‘put to sleep’. Aren’t humans more important than puppies? Certainly they are… So why does the puppy thing ‘tug’ at me stronger than the people dying (discount the fact that it’s just a TV show)?

Why we, or I should say I, can somehow give a 'priority' to one thing that can easily be argued to be less important than another, is tricky to answer. The human psyche is a tricky thing. The bonding of logic and feelings and our human experience will produce some strange results. And that’s where Abnerman’s mention of irony comes in. Life is full of irony.

I don’t really understand why I reacted the way I did with the two incidents (the Flag thing and the homicide)…I just did. I reacted to both in an honest and open way and how my heart and soul directed (I don’t mean to get heavy and mushy here). Maybe it wasn’t ‘fair’, but my actions satisfied something in me. And I learned from both experiences….that’s kind of what life is all about.

I would like to hear more about this subject....

Good post Abnerman.

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 Post subject: Re: Flag theft.
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 9:57 am 
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My only comment is that a reward is usually posted by someone or a group that has a vested interest in the situation. Seeing as the flag theft had occured several weeks prior to the murder and was already in place is one reason. Also there needed to be someone who was willing to take charge of the reward and initiate it is the other factor. If it had not been solved in the short time between occuring and the arrest I have no doubt there would have been one posted.

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