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The Tomahawk Leader is a state and national prize-winning weekly newspaper serving the scenic Northwoods area in and around Tomahawk, WI.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:40 am 
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Tomahawk got a black eye last week in the matter of cigarette sales to kids. A compliance check by police showed that nine of 14 establishments licensed to sell cigarettes offered to sell them to someone not 18 years
old. That's illegal, and it's just under a whopping 65 percent failure rate. Actually, the percentage is a bit higher, because one of the 14 businesses licensed to do so does not sell cigarettes.

The percentage surprised Police Chief Don Johnson, whose department conducted the check. It should surprise all of us. Most shocking is that the checks were not a "sting" – the merchants were told by letter on Aug. 8 that the compliance checks were coming.

It would be interesting to know who the people were who went into the businesses and ordered the smokes. But that's an investigation tool Johnson does not want to divulge. You can just guess that some of them clearly looked underage. Even if they used a 6-3, bearded 17-year-old from Marathon County he should be age checked. We know of some stores elsewhere that card everyone, even if he looks, and is, 80.

The Tomahawk Police Department certainly is not out to embarrass any store owner. Neither is The Leader. It's public information which stores failed this first compliance check, but we aren't naming them – this time. Future violations will bring fines, police say, and then everyone will know.

The Tomahawk Police Department and the Lincoln County Health Deparment are participating in WI/WINS, a state program designed to recognize clerks who refuse to sell tobacco products to minors. That's the positive approach, and we like it. It's a reminder that in Wisconsin all retailers of tobacco products are required to provide employee training in prevention of illegal sales to minors.

After all, 90 percent of smokers started to smoke before they were 18. Tomahawk's participation in WI/WINS hopefully will do much to see that they don't get their start here.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2002 7:56 am 
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It does not surprise me. Anytime I see childern hanging around down town there are several smoking what appears to be tobacco products. They have to get it somewhere. In an attemp to make more money the large number of bus. (who were given notice) sold to minors. Do they just not understand that that $5.00 they make today turns into hunderds of thousands, when we as a whole, have to pay when those same people develope cancer!! Many times I have watched the Police drive right by the childern who are smoking on the corners and park benches down town. As kids do, they are almost asking to get caught. The parents stop their childern from playing in traffic but not from smoking. :eek: :confused: It my not seem like a good comparason but it works for me. Both are DEADLY.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2002 2:55 pm 
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This may be a bit off the subject but I am in the retail package liquor business. We have state stings visit the businesses in our county quite often. Some employees are very good at carding for tobacco and liquor, some aren't (those don't last long). Why should they care, its just a minimum wage job for them. We as owners/ managers can't be there 24/7 to be over their shoulder to watch. Recently, the state gave a first time offender who sold liquor to a minor a hefty $750.00 fine. The establishment got a $1,000.00 fine. For the clerk who lost his job over it was a college student who now has to come up with some cash!! We train our people to card anyone who looks 30 or younger.
We had the same problems with other establishments in our area that you are having up there. It will take a hefty fine for the clerk and the establishment for the message to get around that the state means business. Some minors use their own ID even though it shows under 21, some clerks look at the birth year and not the month or day.
Another idea...why not suspend a minors drivers license until they are 18/21 for trying to purchase with their ID or an altered ID? Also, why not cut their ID in half if they try to purchase as a minor and let them explain that to their parents.
I was young once too, I know the tricks of the trade. But if I knew I could lose my license for trying to purchase as a minor forget it. I wouldn't take the chance of losing the freedom of driving myself where I wanted or needed to go.
I don't know your local liquor ordinances and I am not trying to stir anything up. Just food for thought.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2002 8:57 am 
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Hmm,... surprised? In a nation where the cancer promoters are protected by law, it is not at all surprising that merchants have a cavalier attitude about legal compliance. Particularly in a community that appears so nonchalant about the prevalence of drugs/alcohol in their Middle & High Schools.

While I agree that merchants need to be made responsible, to me, the real deal is targeting the parents of the children caught smoking, buying tobacco/liquor, using drugs, etc.

A national political figure was recently scorned for quoting the African adage "It takes a village to raise a child", but in a nation where even parents are hesitant to discipline their own children, children's development of values come from their (equally unqualified) peers.

As as was alluded to, this is not just a legal problem, and not merely a problem for merchants & parents. The consequences to society at large for (what begins as) teen smoking loom on the horizon like an emmense mushroom cloud promising death & destruction.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:10 am 
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This is off topic, but I find it ironic and slightly disturbing that NetMaster (Don Rogers) would be preaching about community and parental values when he appears to be associated with some of the following content on the web...

*** Web site links have been removed by the webmaster because of content! ***

Folks, you can draw your own conclusions, but in my opinion stay away from this Mr. Rogers' neighborhood... especially since his profile mentions "children" as an interest.

(FYI, Don Rogers is listed as the owner of the above domains according to the domain registry... he may or may not be directly associated with some of the e-mail IDs, content, and/or newsgroup articles included in the links above. However, as owner of the domains, I believe he is indirectly responsible for their content and purpose. Be careful out there...)

NetMaster/Don Rogers, if you can refute or explain the claims above, please be my guest. Please prove me wrong in my opinions. You can hide behind the 1st amendment, but don't bring your trash to Tomahawk under the guise of a family and social values advocate.

<small>[ November 06, 2002, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: Webmaster ]</small>


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2002 5:23 pm 
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WOW! I guess you put me in my place,... but I stand by my remarks. I moved here to provide my children with a better environment. The "no problems here" approach to dealing with teenaged drug, alcohol, & tobacco abuse just ain't workin'! And neither will attacking me personally.

This isn't about Don Rogers,... it is about a community trying to open a dialogue to brainstorm the resolution of a problem. If you have a personal problem with how you percieve I earn a living, feel free to email me personally and tell all about it. It might make me a better person. But for the purposes of this forum, such vinegar IS off-topic and counter-productive.

We need responsible parents, and OPEN dialogue. I am wa-a-a-ay not perfect,... but with the intimate history I have with drug & alcohol abuse, I want to be part of the solution. Our children deserve us, as adults, pulling together to help them stave off the lurid temptations of the quick fix which addictive substances bring.

Personally, I would like to see more community support for things like the recently opened Grooves Center. The kids desperately need constructive things to do. Idle hands, yanno!


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2002 11:37 pm 
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I find it very interesting that the police department should find the time to conduct such an extensive sting program in the city of Tomahawk. It must be quite convenient to score this kind of victory over fairly stationary shopkeepers when the drug dealers who are supplying our young people with dope keep moving around. Although I am happy that we are keeping cigarettes out of the hands of young people, I would be much happier to see the Tomahawk police department score a major breakthrough against the dope dealers that we know are operating in this town. When are we going to stop harrassing honest (careless though they may be) shopkeepers and start working on the real villains? Could it be that this is too hard a task?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2003 11:57 am 
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Cigerettes are just as much, if not more, of a health threat as any other drug. I personally believe the police dept. is doing as much as possible on every level as time and budget allow. I do not believe for one minute that it is so difficult to ask for proof of age. They do not want to lose the money the sale to the minors would make, now or in the future. It is greed on the part of the bus.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2003 3:31 pm 
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Cigerettes are just as much, if not more, of a health threat as any other drug.
My first inclination was to make a comment such as "Anyone who believes that has had way too much experience with drugs", but I will be nice and refrain from such comments. Cigerettes may be a health hazard but to put them in the same context as hard drugs is completly out of the ball park. I agree with Dave, that when kids tell you that they could buy drugs most anywhere in town and the police are more conserned with whether a business checks for ID to buy cigerettes just doesn't make a lot of sense.

<small>[ January 02, 2003, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: Old Scout ]</small>

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:27 pm 
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I think for the two hours or so it would take to drive a kid around to the different stores and see if they sell we probably didn't lose much protection to the city.

Also, laws strictly require that anyone under of 27 or 28 MUST be carded every time for both alcohol and cigarettes. The same businesses that are selling cigarettes to minors will be the ones selling alcohol.

Add to that the fact that if you are going to become addicted to tobacco you are most likely going to do it in your teens and some studies have shown that smoking can be a gateway to other drugs I think this is important.

If business owners can't take the time to card kids they deserve the fine they will get next time this is done.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:36 am 
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I am glad you decided to be nice. Cig. are addicting. They cause to many health issues to list. Not only to the person smoking, but to everyone who is in the same air space!!!!!!! I have walked out of a non smoking bus. and almost puked because the stench of the cigs. from the people who can not walk 10 feet away from the door to smoke, Or HAVE to smoke UP TO the door before they walk in. The people who smoke stink, their clothes and breath stink. I can smell them from a distance. Another thing I see the smokers do is drive with the childern in the cars and the windows rolled up. Maybe THE smokers themselves have way to much experience with other drugs. Just because it is legal does not make it good. It only means that the tabacco companies had enough money to make it legal. Any aduldt who votes knows how that works. Anything that has that much CONTROL over someone is a VERY BAD THING!!!!! Most of the gas stations in Tomahawk are smoke filled by the people who work there. I do not even buy gas in Tomahawk because I choose to not breath their second hand smoke. Everyone has been made aware of all the health issues atributted to second hand smoke, yet those who smoke do not care about what it is doing to those that do not smoke. I am not surprised though, because they do not seem to care about what damage they do to themselves, why would they care about others. The medical expenses related to smoking and second hand smoke are well documented. In MY opinion, people who smoke are WEAK and STUPID!!!!!!! VERY, VERY STUPID!!!!!! :eek:

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2003 12:15 pm 
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Marty its great you dont smoke around other people. Sure wish alot of others did the same,but there is more that are not like you. I used to smoke and boy am I ever glad I quit 8 years ago.Now it makes me very ill,we avoid going to places that smoking is allowed.I see middle school kids everyday just off the school grounds getting their morning smoke,they watch for the police and move around,see the police have tried to catch them but the kids are real good at finding were the police are not.Were do they get the cigs.? They know which business to go too!Or they may just get the cigs from their parents or older sister or brother who knows but they get them!! :confused: There are several that are known for selling cigs. and beer.Im glad to hear that some bus. got nailed and guess what the police could go back and back and catch them over and over.Its not the total answer to help stop the sales but its a start! Im not sure there will ever be a good answer but something needs to be done!!! :confused: :confused: :confused:


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2003 7:04 pm 
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Originally posted by nugget:
Another thing I see the smokers do is drive with the children in the cars and the windows rolled up.
When I see adults or teens smoking in cars with young children I want to see them arrested. It is child abuse to force children to breath smoke. There was a M.D. in Minneapolis who was an expert witness in child abuse, he testified in the famous child abuse case called Murder in White Bear. The man was very well respected. He considered any parent or adult who smoked inside a car or a house in which there were children to be guilty of child abuse. If he had a child with health concerns aggravated and/or caused by smoke exposure those parents got reported to Child Protection.

Smoking is so incredibly stupid I'll never understand why anyone ever starts.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2003 7:08 pm 
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>>>Cigerettes may be a health hazard but to put them in the same context as hard drugs is completly out of the ball park. <<<

Cigarettes are more addictive than most hard drugs, cost the U.S. taxpayer more in health care costs than hard drugs, and cause millions more deaths than hard drugs. Tobacco is the major cause of morbidity and mortality in this country.

In addition, in adolescents cigarettes are well recognized as being a gateway to other drug usage.

Nell

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2003 3:11 pm 
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I'm impressed!

We finally found a considerate smoker. Unfortunately many of my friends in college smoked. I had to make specific rules (that I was not friendly about enforcing) on throwing things out of my car. I’m also so sick of seeing butts everywhere, including flying out of cars, that I wish the police would start handing out large tickets to those who throw them out windows or drop them on the ground as they walk in a building.

Add to that one of my top priorities if I ever run for a political office will be to make it a ticket able offence to smoke with a minor in the vehicle. The truly sad thing about this is I usually would prefer the government stay out of people’s lives.

Finally, all those smokers throwing that little butt out the window or on the ground probably don’t think anything of it. However, I saw a study somewhere about how much damage these do to the environment. If I remember correctly the filter contains toxins, the same ones the smoker just inhaled, that are harmful and the volume that finds its way into the environment is insane. I also never had a chance to do it but I was hoping to write a report in college that would calculate the amount of pollutants released into the air by smokers and compare it to automobiles.

I’m sorry, I’m just sick of smoke!

* Posted again because it was under the Webmaster name before *


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2003 8:57 pm 
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I was talking to a young man yesterday about the subject of buying cigarettes and he just laughed. His opinion is that it is much easier to buy drugs in Tomahawk than it is to buy cigarettes. He is an athlete and doesn't smoke or use drugs but is well aware of some of the kids that do and how easy it is for them to get what ever they want. I guess it just amazes me that we hear so little about what is being done to stop this problem. once in a while we hear of someone being caught with some drugs or a pipe but the people that are selling it seem immune. Perhaps the local police need to spend a little more time on this and less on trying to trap our local business owners with their big sting operations.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2003 3:17 pm 
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Maybe I should rephrase myself, the action of smoking cigs. is STUPID. There are many ways to be weak. Not just physical. I am a big, strong, healthy, fourth generation Wisconsin dairy farmers daughter. You might be surprised to find I just might wind you. I get weak when I see a person who needs help. I get weak when I see another animal hurt in any way by Humans. They do not chose to be here. They are here as a derect result of humans. That is why we have addopted so many into our home. I drive defensely, I do not litter, I use minimal plastics, I am in the process of getting a wind machine, for alturnate energy, Yes, I help standed people,(although I must admit I stop for motercycles faster). When pedestrians are in a cross walk or aproaching one, yes I stop. I am far from perfact, but I strive to make myself a better person everyday. You only get what you expect. If you THINK your day will SUCK, then it will!!! If you apreciate what you have instead of wanting what you do not have, Life is great. Cig. ARE a DRUG!!!!!!!!!! The same way ALCOHOL IS a DRUG. I have a high school aged child. He does not do any drugs. I asked him about the ease of getting drugs in this area. His response is "those who do, know those that don't, and would not tell me anyway."

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2003 11:27 pm 
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"Most of the gas stations in Tomahawk are smoke filled by the people who work there. I do not even buy gas in Tomahawk because I choose to not breath their second hand smoke."
nugget,
You must not visit the local bars either and only patronize non-smoking resturants???


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 6:09 am 
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I have been in one bar in the last six months. For a friends wedding party. Stayed till it got smokey. Believe it or not, there are also smoke free bars in Wisconsin. Yes, only smoke free dining is acceptable. There are more smoke free restraunts then one might think. Although I don't eat out very often either.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 9:27 am 
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Quote:
nugget,
You must not visit the local bars either and only patronize non-smoking resturants???[/QB]
Speaking for myself, not Nugget, I quit bowling because it was impossible to get away from the smoke. There is a bar near my workplace that has good burgers, as bars frequently do, and it's a place where my co-workers like to go on Fridays after work. I went once, never again. I need to breathe and that bar was absolutely the smokiest I have ever been in. I won't eat in smoking restaurants. Smoke makes me physically ill and I cannot see any reason to deliberately make myself sick.

The gas station I go to is run by Muslims. It actually doesn't permit smoking by customers and the staff isn't supposed to smoke either. One day I smelled smoke so of course I asked the attendant if he smoked and he said yes, he did, how did I know? LOL, I said you cannot hide the smell of smoke from me. So we had a long talk about the health risks of smoking. This is a young man, not someone who started smoking pre-1964 and the surgeon general's report. And he's Muslim, they as a rule do not smoke. Anyway, he doesn't like that he smokes and after our talk he is trying to quit. Now, if I hadn't said anything who knows how many years before he'd try to quit.

A woman at work is dying of lung cancer. She never smoked a day in her life but was forced to breathe smoke all her growing up years because of her parents and then she married a smoker. I watched my mother die of lung cancer but at least it was because she chose to smoke, not because of second hand smoke like my poor co-worker. If smokers wants to kill themselves who am I to stop them but they darn well do not have the right to kill others.

Nell

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2003 1:07 pm 
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nugget
A few years ago you were managing a sleazy nude bar. Didn't they allow smoking?
Just wondering..........


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:07 pm 
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Yes, I managed a topless bar, not OWNED. If I had owned it there would not have been smoking. If you know me, you know I could have done it to! After I quit it all went down the tubes anyway. My E-mail adress is avaible if this subject line is to continue.

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