If you or someone you know would like to make an impact on youth and adult smoking, or reduce the impact of secondhand smoke on others, it is very important to provide your support by attending the Town Hall Meeting with Senator Holperin on January 26th.

We talk a lot about social norms as a community. We know that if the state of Wisconsin becomes Smoke Free in 2009 it would have a huge impact on Lincoln County Youth and Adult smoking rate. This is a terrible addictive drug. If we can’t help the addicts, lets help ourselves by banning secondhand smoke in public places.

Let’s share our voice with our elected officials. Now is the time.

Town Hall Meeting
Monday, January 26, 2009
5:00 – 5:30 pm Registration, Food & Networking
5:30 – 7:00 pm Program
Rhinelander, Nicolet College
Learning Resources Center

With invited guest, Jim Holperin (D-Eagle River), 12th Senate District and other speakers

I understand people don't want to be around 2nd hand smoke, but most of the people that want this smoking ban for bars and they don't smoke don't even go to bars! If the smoking ban would go through are they going to even go to the bars? I understand not smoking in restaurants and other public places, but it should be a bar owners choice to make the rules for their own place, not people who don't go to these establishments.

Uh, there are quite a few people (a majority actually) that don't smoke, and many of them DO go to bars.

You also can't tell me the smokers won't do what ever it takes to have their fix. I actually saw people driving with their windows down in the -20 weather so they could smoke their precious cancer sticks...

More than 50 studies show that human papillomaviruses cause over ten times more lung cancers than they pretend are caused by secondhand smoke. Passive smokers are more likely to have been exposed to this virus, so the anti-smokers' studies, because they are all based on nothing but lifestyle questionnaires, have been cynically DESIGNED to falsely blame passive smoking for all those extra lung cancers that are really caused by HPV.

http://www.smokershistory.com/hpvlungc.htm

The anti-smokers have committed the same type of fraud with every disease they blame on smoking and passive smoking, as well as ignoring other types of evidence that proves they are lying, such as the fact that the death rates from asthma have more than doubled since their movement began.

http://www.smokershistory.com/newviews.htm

And it's a lie that passive smoking causes heart disease. AMI deaths in Pueblo actually ROSE the year after the smoking ban.

http://www.smokershistory.com/etsheart.html

It doesn't matter if human papillomaviruses cause over ten times more lung cancers. If that is over & above the effects of second hand smoke then the stats just show we have two concerns as lung cancer factors.

I don't know about the virus, but I know we can significantly reduce the threat from second hand smoke.

_________________
What if there were no hypothetical questions?

Oh yes it does matter. Your worthless studies are all based on nothing but lifestyle questionnaires, and that means they're DESIGNED to falsely blame both active and passive smoking for lung cancers that are really caused by HPV. And your charlatans are automatically guilty of flagrant scientific fraud for ignoring those more than 50 studies.

Calm down, light one up, & then tell me why you are generalizing all studies that are counter to your view as being worthless.

_________________
What if there were no hypothetical questions?

I take it that you haven't even looked at ONE of them, and you don't have the faintest clue how all the BS you believe in was manufactured. Your passive smoking studies are all worthless because they're all nothing but lifestyle questionnaires. Unlike you, I have looked at them.

http://www.smokershistory.com/silence.html

And they're worthless because they falsely blame smoking and/or passive smoke for lung cancers that are really caused by HPV, owing to the fact that, by reason of their defective design, they are incapable of doing otherwise.

CarolAnn...I'm curious. Other than your thinking that much of the anti-smoking studies might be BS and your seeming to be so anti anti-smoking...what other stake do you have in being this way? Are you a smoker? Do you have some connection with the tobacco industry? Maybe a lawyer working for the industry in some law suits. Are you associated with any anti anti-smoking groups? What gives...?

What the heck boils your passion so much on this topic? Where are you coming from concerning this? There must be something more going on with you...what is it?

_________________
Ken Martell
kenmartell@gmail.com
Thankful to be alive and healthy. Proud to call Tomahawk my hometown.

Are you implying that I should just meekly submit to having anti-smokers spew lies and defamations in my face and take my freedom away? What arrogance. You think that other people are being unreasonable if they don't want you dictating to them? What total arrogance. And then open your slimy mouth and resort to cheap smears about working for the tobacco industry, when it's the American Cancer Society that corrupts and controls everything, including the tobacco companies, because you're incapable of engaging in an intelligent discussion about the scientific issues.

The anti-smokers commit scientific fraud to falsely blame tobacco. And you expect the people you're victimizing to swallow scientific fraud without question - or else you smear them.

CarolAnn...I'll ignore your comment about my 'slimy mouth', you've never even seen me...not very pretty of you at all

Did you even read what my post was about or are you just always in attack mode? It seems to me that you're the one 'incapable of engaging in an intelligent discussion' with your angry rhetoric and insinuations. But I'll just chalk it up to your heated passion for your crusade...and I truly admire people who are passionate on topics as long as I can understand where that passion originates. If I don't understand where their passion comes from I begin to get suspicious and wary.

You COMPLETELY ignored the point I was asking about, so I'll ask it again. Hopefully, you will answer IT instead of attacking ME.

I've never seen such passion on this side of the subject before and I'm just wondering where it's all coming from. I know you think the anti-smoking propaganda is all 'BS'(and I also don't believe EVERYTHING I hear about it)...that's obvious. And I haven't commented at all on what you are saying about it...Jeff seems to be working that angle somewhat...I'm just wondering why you're SO heated up about it. Where is that heat coming from? Something's behind it...what is it?

You seem to have done lots of research on the subject. Why? What's driving you on this?

Can't we all just get along Let's be capable of 'engaging in an intelligent discussion' !!!

_________________
Ken Martell
kenmartell@gmail.com
Thankful to be alive and healthy. Proud to call Tomahawk my hometown.

Well, excuse me for not assuming that you've been living in a cave and need someone to fill you in on current events of the last ten years or so. May I ask why you chose to pick on me to assist you in catching up?

Are you aware that smokers have been subjected to a systematic campaign of lies and defamations reminiscent of Nazi Germany? Are you aware that the anti-smokers have been getting away with systematic scientific fraud? Did you know that the state legislature is contemplating shoving a statewide smoking ban down everyone's throat, which is founded on the aforementioned lies, defamations, and scientific fraud?

When someone is as far behind as you appear to be, it's hard to know where to begin, you know.

CarrolAnn...one more try then its beddy-bye for me...I have to get up late tomorrow and I'm pushing early afternoon as I write.

What's the cause of your passion on this subject? It's got to be more than the anti-smoking propaganda that you don't believe.

So, what causes the heat? What's behind the passion?

Well, sleep tight...it's got to be late and cold in Madison!!! Hey, is this what you do all night...blab and blog Are you a 'professional' blogger looking for some easy marks in a poor Northern Wisconsin Message Board? Easy now, easy now...just late night attempt at humor. Didn't mean a thing. Maybe a poor attempt a bringing some levity to these posts...

Will I/we be hearing more from you? I'm anxious to see if you can get and stay on point...and not try to hurt so much with your mean verbal jabs.

_________________
Ken Martell
kenmartell@gmail.com
Thankful to be alive and healthy. Proud to call Tomahawk my hometown.

While not really having a comment on second hand smoke, I personally do not smoke. Quite frankly I'm not sure what to believe about the second hand smoke issue.
But WOW, talk about being combative, close minded, and channel minded, with such hostility, where is this attitude coming from as kmart asks Carol Ann? I suppose I am leaving an opportunity for CarolAnn to berate me as well, but that's OK because I have a thick skin and can take all she wants to give me. In the mean time I suggest to CarolAnn to light another one, fill your ashtrays, and dwell on your strong convictions. But for Heavon's sake, take a chill pill. Have at me now Carol Ann, but maybe you should pursue a hand at comedy. Now ladies and gentlemen here is your favorite angry and hostile comic, Carol Ann!

Now, this is a perfect example of why this country is turning into a totalitarian dictatorship: Instead of having sympathy for, and coming to the defense of, the people who are the victims of aggression, persecution, lies, defamations, fraud, and corruption, you denigrate and ridicule the victims for fighting back.

Hiel Hitler! Sieg heil! Sieg heil! Anyone who opposes der Fuhrer must have ulterior motives! That's what kind of people you are!

Ok, I think I understand where CarolAnn is coming from. If you look at her links in her posts they are all from smokershistory.com. If you go to their home page: http://www.smokershistory.com/index.htm you'll see it's just an anti-government hate filled web site.

It proclaims itself with the title 'The History of the Conspiracy Against Tobacco' with other bold headings that say stuff like "This website is PROUDLY dedicated to the bloody annihilation of the United States Government, and its wealthy puppet-masters, from the face of the earth." and reading on "THE U.S. GOVERNMENT IS A NAZI DICTATORSHIP USING NAZI PSEUDO-SCIENCE TO PERSECUTE INNOCENT PEOPLE!" And on and on and on...

If this is what turns CarolAnn on then it's easy to understand why she is so mean spirited. The website is just a hate filled crock pot with a very nauseating smell. CarolAnn needs more then a 'chill pill'.

She's just an unemployed phony trying to stir thing up...she has zero credibility as far as I'm concerned. ...and shame on you Catfish for leading us into a totalitarian dictatorship. What the heck kind of person are you anyway

-----

I just read her last post...wow, scary indeed !!!

_________________
Ken Martell
kenmartell@gmail.com
Thankful to be alive and healthy. Proud to call Tomahawk my hometown.

Nazi pseudo-science is exactly what you believe in. The Nazis invented lifestyle questionnaires in the 1930s to persecute smokers, and the American Cancer Society embraced them and used for their intended purpose. Lifestyle questionnaire studies are pseudo-science because, by their very design, they are incapable of implicating anything but the chosen lifestyle factors. That means, for example, that when passive smokers happen to be more likely to be exposed to HPV than non-passive smoke-exposed non-smokers, the lifestyle questionnaire study will automatically (falsely) blame passive smoking for the extra lung cancers. So far, there have been 59 studies of HPV and lung cancer, which implicate it as the cause of at least 30,000 lung cancers. The anti-smokers are guilty of scientific fraud for ignoring all those studies and refusing to address the subject in any of their reports. NONE of the passive smoking studies which are cited as justification for smoking bans has addressed the issue of HPV.

And, instead of addressing the issue of anti-smoker scientific fraud, YOU smear, defame and abuse the person who rightfully raises it.

CarolAnn,

I think what they're trying to say is you can be much more persuasive by adjusting the way you make your arguments. Sometimes you can win the battle by talking your opponent down rather than just nuking them to death (see the cold war).

Arguing your point the wrong way and you'll actually turn more people against what you're fighting for than you will for it.

Then again, all Carol is doing is pushing people to her own website... Fortunately, thanks to the US Government she so proudly wants to destroy she actually has the right to spout off what ever she wants!

Perhaps Carol is a UW sociology major using the TL Message Board for her own research into "The reaction of people when confronted with illogical aggression"?

_________________
What if there were no hypothetical questions?

Now, what about that issue of anti-smoker scientific fraud? I take it that you guys have unquestioning faith in whatever rubbish "authorities" tell you.

I take it that you have unquestioning faith that the anti-anti-smokers rhetoric is the truth.

_________________
What if there were no hypothetical questions?

Wow, I mean WOW. This seems to be a perfect example of the saying, "Let sleeping dogs lie." I hope I don't feel another urge to reply on this particular thread. It seems as though the bantering back and forth with CarolAnn doesn't go much further than adding fuel to a fire. I believe when you stop adding fuel to a fire, it eventually goes out.

I know it's the truth, because I researched those studies myself. Unlike you.

Amen Catfish.

_________________
What if there were no hypothetical questions?

Good night CarolAnn...happy sailing in La-La land. May all your dreams keep you safe and content. I'm moving on to another cloud...it's been fun. I pray you are well and that you have live in care...try to remember that the thoughts you have are only in YOUR head...keep repeating that !!!

_________________
Ken Martell
kenmartell@gmail.com
Thankful to be alive and healthy. Proud to call Tomahawk my hometown.