Hunters? that is rich. There's scant few "hunters" today..

Lots of shooters and atv jockies... not many real hunters.

I have the impression that Northerndaylily has delusions of adequacy.

"His mother should have thrown him away and kept the stork."

_________________
God and the Soldier we all adore,
In times of trouble and then no more
when war is over and all things righted
God is forgotten, the old soldier Slighted.

Can you believe this foolishness ? ?

"TRAVERSE CITY, MICHIGAN - The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service published a rule Wednesday that formally returns gray wolves in the upper Great Lakes region to the endangered species list.

The rule fulfills a deal made with environmental groups in July, when the agency promised to reinstate the wolves' protected status while considering its next move.

Earlier this year, the government dropped about 4,000 wolves in Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin from the list, turning over management of the predators to state wildlife regulators.

Activist groups sued, saying state plans were inadequate and would open the door to future hunting and trapping. The federal agency agreed to put wolves back on the endangered list for now, in part because it erred by removing them without a legally required public comment period."

Public comments ? ? My comment is make up your mind ! !

I wonder if they think the average tree hugger knows more than the people that are trained wildlife experts. This isn't an emotion issue and that is all the tree huggers are making it into. Lets try a little common sense !

_________________
God and the Soldier we all adore,
In times of trouble and then no more
when war is over and all things righted
God is forgotten, the old soldier Slighted.

Didn't the WI DNR state that the state's wolf population has exceed the goal for a sustaining population by 50%? Has any one seen a deer, rabbit, grouse in their typically preferred hunting grounds?

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What if there were no hypothetical questions?

Wow, your right Jeff. Come to think of it, it was seldom on a walk thru my 80 that I didn't jump grouse, partridge and bunnies. I still have deer but the little ones ARE GONE. Big bad wolf. I got bears too.

P.S. We can't forget my pack of coyotes.

I say we have a tree hugger ralley to support wolves and then slip in a video of a wolf killing a baby dear and tell them how many times a year that it happens.

Oh, but that's "natural". I say have the tree hugger rally as an over the weekend event and kindly spread ground beef all over the ground at the campsites. The wolves, bears and coyotes should set them straight by the end of the weekend...

If I don't see a dozen mulies daily in my yard/neighborhood then I must be gone. We have wolves/mountain lion/bear/coyote/rattlers here and while people have been bitten by bear/lion/rattlers, in the decades I've been in Colorado I don't recall hearing of a single wolf/coyote encounter where someone has been threatened/bitten. Granted a hybrid wolf did attack a dog several months ago but dogs do that daily. To top it off in August Aspen had over 200 police callouts for bear encounters in town, mostly because people don't put their garbage where bears can't get to it. That's right, 200, nine bear put down, but not a single complaint about wolves or elk for that matter.
Is there some fear mongering going on up home where a couple incidents have been turned into an epidemic?

Ski_lover,

I think the game ratios are a little different in CO. I think the large wolf and bear numbers have killed off enough of the other game that they're running out of normal food. If wolves were attacking dogs near your home you might be a bit nervous too. Remember that there have been attacks in people's yards here, with the homeowners in the yard too.

Also, we now have way more wolves than the original population goal (and those are just the ones they acknowledge are there). Yet now that population control needs to become a priority people are crying that we have to protect the pretty wolves (typically people from cities that are thrilled when a squirrel visits their feeders...

Kerry, what wolves are doing around Tomahawk mountain lions do here, sometimes when the dog is walking with its owner, other times on home decks and most certainly more often. If your pet disappears you can almost bet the ranch it fell prey to a lion.
Bottom line is we all need to recognize there's danger out there, it mostly comes from our own species.

Agreed,

The mountain lions and fearless bears (even black and brown) are what make me nervous when I'm in Montana (we had one that didn't want to leave a deck even after a .357 was shot near it 4 or 5 times this year, and that was after we yelled at it and hit in the head with a piece of firewood).

I'm not even too afraid of the wolves/bears when I go home to Tomahawk. The bears are making me a bit more nervous because they're getting bolder too (we've had them inside what was supposed to be a screened in porch while we were at our cabin and at a standoff with one of our dogs while I was hiking.

I had a guy that was hunting on my property in a tree stand last year. He was kept up the tree by a bear that started up the tree to get him. He threw everything he had to throw at him to scare him off. Finally he hit him in the head with a blunt arrow. The bear then decided to back down the tree and split. Now I don't go in my own woods without my 357 or 9mm on my side. I always thought the biggest danger in making firewood was having a tree fall on you or kick back up in your face after falling. I feel better with my gun with me, provided I will still be able to buy ammo for it in the future. No permit or endangered will not stop me from making some dead meat. My safety and the safety of my family takes precident over whatever the DNR thinks. I guess I'd be called a forest vigilanty. Go ahead, fall mountains, just don't fall on me.

As a wise man once told me, "live by the three s's when dealing with wolves or bear, Shoot - Shovel - and Shut-up."

_________________
God and the Soldier we all adore,
In times of trouble and then no more
when war is over and all things righted
God is forgotten, the old soldier Slighted.

There is also the fact that wolves and bear wander around the city from time to time. There is a single big black wolf on the hwy "A" side of town. I have also seen bear in that area in the past. Just recently there was a bear over by Sara park.

Just a few recent listings from the local paper:
SUNRISE: Police spot mountain lion in east Springs...
Wandering mountain lion killed in Briargate backyard by police ...
Malnourished cougar is killed on southwest side...
Lions eat cats at Garden of Gods...
Prized llama killed by mountain lion...
a lion was spotted along the Monument Creek jogging path near downtown. ...
On the Crags Road they encounter a mountain lion attacking a deer...
mountain lion first sighted about 11 am Saturday in the neighborhood east of Powers ...
Keep in mind these are different sitings (not all inclusive) within the past nine months in a city of 400k people. Suppose it could be the same one (except for the two that were killed.) There's plenty of natural prey for lions in town as mule deer are all over the place which could be one reason there are so many sitings.
In the wolf cases it seems they may be expanding their search for food. Not a pleasant thought.

Ski_lover,

You just pointed out the key difference though. They're killing some of the problem ones. The environmental groups sued to get wolves put back on the endangered list so nothing can be done about the problem ones.

As I was told in hunter's safety, "If you shoot it, it better have bitten you already." That's not a solution when we have more of the critters than we said we wanted when we started.

I have the impression that Northerndaylily has delusions of adequacy.
"His mother should have thrown him away and kept the stork."... writes some old dolt.

At least... that guy was born.. and not hatched.. like you.

Wolves have the capacity to eat 7500 deer or so per year (15 x 500). Many of those have been wounded by incompetent hunters or hit by cars and cannot get away. Cars kill 50,000 that are reported and an estimated 50,000 more that are unreported. All the wolf haters should be driving around with bumper stickers saying, "NO CARS."

_________________
If all the atheists left the United States it would lose 93% of the National Academy of Sciences but less than 1% of the prison population.

DNR sez now 900K+ tall mice in Wis now.. that is historically many more than before the bambi love got into full gear.

Now... shoot that number down by 70% in the southern zones.. and it'd be about right on. What the tavern/watering hole owners should do is run videos of bambi during the 'shooting season'.. that'd be enough for the most.

On CNN.com there was a report a week or two ago of a jogger taken down & killed by wild animals near an Alaskan village. Based on initial investigations, a wolf/wolves are strongly suspected. DNA evidence taken from the body may reveal the identity. Doing a "google" on Humans killed by wolves, there are many references, particularly in Europe. How long before our WI four legged friends take a liking to chasing us?

_________________
What if there were no hypothetical questions?

Better look out here... ol' bobby redford and his buds will come otta the woodwork... wolves kill people?.. never...... .

If one is worried per wolf attacks.. consider the loss of human life each yr per DEER/car
collisions............ no one seems to be worried on that count.

I believe there is one big difference !

Hitting a deer is an accident that you will probably survive, but being attacked by a wolf pack is intenional and a whole lot more terrifying for the victim and unless they are lucky will most likely be fatal.

I have hit deer and I will take that any time over a run in with the wolves. There is a reason I carry a gun with me when I am in the woods.

_________________
God and the Soldier we all adore,
In times of trouble and then no more
when war is over and all things righted
God is forgotten, the old soldier Slighted.

With 150 homicides, 1500 rapes and 10,000 aggravated assaults by humans on humans in Wisconsin alone last year, is there really an issue if a wolf kills a human? All of those are intentional. A wolf is a carnivore and includes mostly hooved quadripeds in its diet but also eats other animals. We pay good money to kill humans all over the world with our taxes. If one is going to start making prescriptive moral arguments, make them where they belong.

_________________
If all the atheists left the United States it would lose 93% of the National Academy of Sciences but less than 1% of the prison population.

C'mon mystic... you make tooo much sense.. I mean.. these far side forums are mostly populated by the under achiever for rational thought. GUN in the woods at all times.. don't we all? I mean...one might have to make sound shots.. who cares what they kill.. just so long as it is DEAD.

The average non thinker needs something to hate.. wolves are now the hot choice. AND as everyone knows.. wolves are responsible for everything wrong with the tall mice population...........

STOP making good sense mystic............. HUMAN BEING does not mean ANIMAL... no matter how idiotic they act.