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 Post subject: Tomahawk High School
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:07 pm 
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I just watched the news on channel 12 and was blown away by the report that Tomahawk High School was let out at 10:00 o’clock this morning so the kids could protest the governor’s bill. What the h**l???

Those who run the school should be fired on the spot. I’m not taking any stand either way on the bill, but teachers, should not have the power to enlist the children, 14-18 years old to protest something they know nothing about except what they are told by their teachers! What the h**l is going on and what is wrong with these people ????

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 Post subject: Re: Tomahawk High School
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:19 pm 
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In general I agree Old Scout (and my pay will be cut by this). I think it's even worse that Madison had to cancel school today because too many teachers called in sick.

On the flip side, some schools here have simply had students walk out to protest. If they do it on their own I don't know that you can blame the teachers.


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 Post subject: Re: Tomahawk High School
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:27 pm 
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Kerry,
I guess my response would have to be, "who is running the school, the teachers or the kids". If the students did this on their own then some disiplinary action is in order and if the teachers allowed it then disipinary action is also in order.

As for the teachers in Madison, unless they have some proof that they were sick, I would fire the whole bunch of them. they are getting paid to teach not to take off from their job and spend the day protesting and getting paid for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Tomahawk High School
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:45 pm 
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As the mother of two high school students, I have to express my dissappointment with the protest today. Neither one of my children knew what they were protesting, they just wanted out of class as did every other student.
My question is, who let them out of class? Can a student just walk out of a classroom??? I feel that the teachers knew exactly what was going on. So, I explained to my children exactly what they were protesting, and I am not saying they would have changed their mind, but at least now they are educated on the issue.
So if they would like to support Govenor Walker's efforts could they protest tomorrow and be supported by the school and staff as they were today?
One more question...are the teachers going to give back the one hour of pay that the tax payers got ripped off from for not actually teaching for an hour?


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 Post subject: Re: Tomahawk High School
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:01 pm 
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Today's Lesson: Education Comes Secondary to a Paycheck

I would have to vehemently agree with Old Scout. Fortunately, my kids are not old enough to be in Tomahawk's public school. Once they are old enough, we will likely be moving or transporting our kids to another area school district for this and other reasons. It seems obvious that the students have learned some poor lessons from the teachers who have shirked their responsibility as educators to form a one-day strike.

I would urge parents to hold the THS adminisitration and the students responsible for their actions.

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 Post subject: Re: Tomahawk High School
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:13 pm 
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I happen to be a senior at Tomahawk and the teachers did not influence us to do this protest. Yes it is true that some of the kids walking with us did not have any clue why they were walking and that is wrong. If they didn't know what they were protesting they should not have left class. There are many students in our school that have one, or both parents, that are teachers. The passing of this bill will change their lifes.

As for the teachers not stopping us from making our voice known, they were just protecting our freedom of speech. Just because we are not older than 18 doesn't mean our voices do not deserve to be heard.


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 Post subject: Re: Tomahawk High School
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:27 pm 
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So, where were the seniors during the Harley Davidson or LP layoffs? Are you going to tell me that more students would be affected by this bill than those layoffs? What about when Tomahawk Foods was forced to close or the many layoffs of Nelson's County Market staff? Did the seniors suddenly grow a sense of political awareness and activism? No, it was simply and excuse to walk out on a nice day and, apparently in some cases, leave the school grounds completely. Nobility is not based on convenience.

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 Post subject: Re: Tomahawk High School
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:45 pm 
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This bill will affect every aspect of our quality of education. This was not just a reason to get out of school. Yes some people did take it too far as to skip school but 99% of us complied when we were told to go back to class. Our teachers have guided us for the past four years and we wanted to show them that we do care. They are the ones that take the time to educate us and deal with us when we are young and immature.


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 Post subject: Re: Tomahawk High School
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:42 pm 
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How would you expect this bill to affect every aspect of your education? The teachers will have to contribute more to their own health insurance and pensions. Will they be any less productive teachers because of this? I would hope not. The state government is trying to manage a current deficit of $137 million for the current biennial budget and a proposed deficit of $3.6 billion based on the next two year budget of expenditure requests and tax cuts. If schools would like to get funding for programs for the next few years, I would expect that they would see this as an opportunity to secure their own future instead of casting a poor public image.

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 Post subject: Re: Tomahawk High School
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:09 pm 
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Neup99, just a couple of comments...

First, anyone that thinks the schools are actually going to be funded is going to be in for a big surprise over the next couple of weeks. The current proposal is simply a stop-gap measure to fix a few months. The actual two year budget is coming in the next week or two and odds are, it's simply going to massively cut funding to schools and local communities. The primary reason? Walker said HE wouldn't raise taxes. However, all he has to do is cut all the funding to those two groups, now THEY have to raise taxes.

Second, I'm not a teacher, but if the people with the most talent, skills and experience decide to leave because they can make more money elsewhere that leaves only the lesser qualified people. If I choose to leave my job at the UW because I can make considerably more money working for a private company that potentially hurts my entire department. They'll now have to spend time and money recruiting someone new, training them, etc. And odds are, the new person isn't going to be willing to spend their entire weekend working on something just because that's what they "should" do with no reward, and quite possibly not even a thank you.

I truly believe the biggest problem with the entire structure we have now is that nothing is merit based. If I'm doing a good job I should get more. If I'm not, I should get less, get fired or not get anything new. Unfortunately, that's not the current structure. If anyone gets a raise, we all get one. If anyone gets a cut, we all get one. Based on that, why should I put in any more effort than the worst person we have? I'm not going to get anything more for it.


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 Post subject: Re: Tomahawk High School
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:15 pm 
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Please forgive my ignorance. How does Walker's plans affect teachers/administrators who are already retired?

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 Post subject: Re: Tomahawk High School
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:24 pm 
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Jeff,

What are you referring to? I don't think it does anything to someone already retired.

Kerry


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 Post subject: Re: Tomahawk High School
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:35 pm 
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Kerry Tobin wrote:
Neup99, just a couple of comments...

First, anyone that thinks the schools are actually going to be funded is going to be in for a big surprise over the next couple of weeks. The current proposal is simply a stop-gap measure to fix a few months. The actual two year budget is coming in the next week or two and odds are, it's simply going to massively cut funding to schools and local communities. The primary reason? Walker said HE wouldn't raise taxes. However, all he has to do is cut all the funding to those two groups, now THEY have to raise taxes.


Yes, most likely funding will be cut across the board. Stopping this proposal will do nothing to help that fact and will most likely make it worse.

Kerry Tobin wrote:
Second, I'm not a teacher, but if the people with the most talent, skills and experience decide to leave because they can make more money elsewhere that leaves only the lesser qualified people. If I choose to leave my job at the UW because I can make considerably more money working for a private company that potentially hurts my entire department. They'll now have to spend time and money recruiting someone new, training them, etc. And odds are, the new person isn't going to be willing to spend their entire weekend working on something just because that's what they "should" do with no reward, and quite possibly not even a thank you.


Yes, that is part of a fair market, they can leave the job if they feel the need. However, I have friends who are current students at UW. Most often, they get their assignments from TA's (some of them are very poor TA's at that). The people with the most talent, skills and experience are already absent. Perhaps this will cause the UW to look at what their professors are really contributing to their students' educations.

Kerry Tobin wrote:
I truly believe the biggest problem with the entire structure we have now is that nothing is merit based. If I'm doing a good job I should get more. If I'm not, I should get less, get fired or not get anything new. Unfortunately, that's not the current structure. If anyone gets a raise, we all get one. If anyone gets a cut, we all get one. Based on that, why should I put in any more effort than the worst person we have? I'm not going to get anything more for it.


I agree completely about basing reimbursement on merit and not tenure, or the merit based pay system. Could you tell me when a union ever had done anything that would contribute to a system like this? The American Federation of Teachers has done everything they can to kill this idea since it became noteworthy in around 2007. I think they even came out and said that they were afraid it would reduce "solidarity" among teachers.

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 Post subject: Re: Tomahawk High School
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:37 pm 
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I think you would be surprised what the teachers at THS are making. Even if they have to pay a little more toward their benefits they are still making quite a bit more than most people in the area. If they are only in it for the money then perhaps they should look elsewhere. There are dedicated teachers out there but unfortunatly they are in the minority. I have a friend who used to be on the school board and always refered to the teachers holding the school district hostage and demanding all that they could squeeze out of it, even if it meant that in order to meet budget the district had to lay some of the low seniority teachers off. As long as they received their raise they didn't care. If that is how a union is operated it is time for a change.

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 Post subject: Re: Tomahawk High School
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:43 pm 
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It should be noted that, unless something has changed, the teachers' union will retain the right to negotiate wages.

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews ... 62.pdf.pdf

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 Post subject: Budget Repair Bill
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:51 pm 
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I believe that what the school has done with letting the kids protest is a good thing, honestly. The teachers obviously have talked with their students about the issue regarding Gov. Walker. When I attended school I was not talked to about politics.
They are our future with elections, they need all the education they can get. If that means protesting, then let them protest. Their grade was not affected by protesting.

My family will be affected by this repair bill. We are not teachers, but state employees. We keep the state safe, while you and your family are at work, school, activities or asleep. With the passing of this bill our wages will be cut more then 12%. There are more affected then just the teachers with this bill.

The teachers are just taking a stand at protecting themselves and the Union. Which is what my family has also done. We went to Madison, we protested for the day, and we voiced our concerns.


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 Post subject: Re: Tomahawk High School
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:12 pm 
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I am well aware and well educated on Scott Walkers act. This will effect more people than just teachers and thats why we did the walk out. The people who did understand and have done research on this act are well aware that if part of teachers benefits are taken away it will effect the income for the familys of the teachers as well. With less money these familys will not be shopping at local small businesses or shopping at Nelson's. This is going to hurt a lot more people than you think. Also teachers negotiate to receive a lower income so that they can keep there benefits. If you are taking away from their benefits, the money they will be losing they will not be getting back. Therefore if teachers knew this would of happened they would have taken the higher paychecks rather then get benefits that are going to be taken from them.


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 Post subject: Re: Tomahawk High School
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:40 pm 
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walker is lunatic.
'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-mkjXR6c78

Hurting the middle class hurts even him and his rich buddies eventually. It`s the middle class that do all the paying and spending in this country. If the teachers have a healthcare plan that`s too good, REnegotiate.


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 Post subject: Re: Tomahawk High School
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:17 pm 
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http://www.change.org/petitions/recall-scott-walker
'
http://brewtowngumshoe.blogspot.com/201 ... alker.html
'
http://scottwalkerwatch.com/?page_id=91


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 Post subject: Re: Tomahawk High School
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:50 pm 
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The teachers may have had a sympathetic response until they abandon the students to look out for their benefits.

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 Post subject: Re: Tomahawk High School
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:12 pm 
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I believe that what the school has done with letting the kids protest is a good thing, honestly. The teachers obviously have talked with their students about the issue regarding Gov. Walker.


Oh I am sure they did talk about it. From on side only ! ! Didn't they used to call that "Brain Washing"

I really don't believe that they explained all sides of the issue,

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if part of teachers benefits are taken away it will effect the income for the familys of the teachers as well. With less money these familys will not be shopping at local small businesses or shopping at Nelson's.


And if the state has to increase taxes to make up the deficit it will affect all of us and we won't be doing any shopping. So what makes them more special than the rest of the people in the state.

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 Post subject: Re: Tomahawk High School
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:21 pm 
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I wonder if the fact that Walker dropped out of Marquette, with a reported 2.2 GPA, and has never gotten a degree is part of the reason he seems to not hold education/educators in high regard. I'm not saying you need to have a college degree to be in politics. I'm just saying education doesn't seem to be a priority for him.

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 Post subject: Re: Tomahawk High School
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:06 pm 
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Or, maybe it just means that you don't need a college education to understand that the budget needs to be corrected and everyone needs to make concessions to make that happen. The private sector has been dealing with the economic downturn for the last 3 years in a major way. I can't say the same for state employees.

If what he is doing is so wrong, where are the voices of opposition with alternative plans to balance the budget? All I've heard from the other side is references to Hitler and Egypt. Is agressive rhetoric the benefit of a college education or just a lack of productive ideas?

Oh, I forgot. The Dems are hiding in Illinois. We probably won't be hearing much from them for a little while. Maybe they'll like it better and stay there.

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 Post subject: Re: Tomahawk High School
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:25 pm 
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Neup99,

Not sure where you've been, but I have taken cuts as a state employee. And that's on a job that I took for less money than I was making at my job in the private sector.

It's not the cuts I'm arguing against. As much as it hurts me, and may lead me to leave my job and possibly even the state, I accept that they need to be done. The protesters are there because of the major changes to the unions. The same unions that had already discussed significant cuts with Doyle but Walker wasn't willing to even meet with.

I'm definitely not a pro union person. But talking with the unions would have been an appropriate first step. Rather than talk with the unions to see what they could come up with, Walker simply went nuclear. It's because of the complete 180 on 50 years of history that there is so much trouble right now.

"Everyone's voices should be heard" - Scott Walker. Funny, that usually means there should be time to talk about a major change. They simply cut off public discussion on the first day. Heck, someone made an excellent point on the Madison website. They left for a vacation to Mexico on Thursday. In the time of a vacation slightly longer than a week, all of their employee rights will have been stripped and they will have been handed an 8-12% pay cut, all before they even get back into the country.


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 Post subject: Re: Tomahawk High School
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:08 pm 
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Kerry Tobin wrote:
Neup99,

Not sure where you've been, but I have taken cuts as a state employee. And that's on a job that I took for less money than I was making at my job in the private sector.


I never said state employees came away unscathed. However, the public sector has been getting simply beaten over the last 3 years. The City of Tomahawk has gone through layoffs by each of its 3 major private employers.

Kerry Tobin wrote:
It's not the cuts I'm arguing against. As much as it hurts me, and may lead me to leave my job and possibly even the state, I accept that they need to be done. The protesters are there because of the major changes to the unions. The same unions that had already discussed significant cuts with Doyle but Walker wasn't willing to even meet with.

I'm definitely not a pro union person. But talking with the unions would have been an appropriate first step. Rather than talk with the unions to see what they could come up with, Walker simply went nuclear. It's because of the complete 180 on 50 years of history that there is so much trouble right now.


I'm not exactly glad that people are going to have their pay cut. However, I am glad to see unions reduced. I have had nothing but bad experiences with unions. 50 years ago, yes, they were necessary. However now, they are simply leeches on the wallets of workers. Unions are in the business of making themselves wealthy and powerful. Creating a productive membership with fair practices is far from their intentions.

Kerry Tobin wrote:
"Everyone's voices should be heard" - Scott Walker. Funny, that usually means there should be time to talk about a major change. They simply cut off public discussion on the first day. Heck, someone made an excellent point on the Madison website. They left for a vacation to Mexico on Thursday. In the time of a vacation slightly longer than a week, all of their employee rights will have been stripped and they will have been handed an 8-12% pay cut, all before they even get back into the country.


Yeah, I've experienced far worse financial problems with an employer within a week. Being a state employee or union employee doesn't make you immune from bad news.

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